Attention Scientists, Engineers and Na-s


Isn't it funny how timing works. With all the different discussions on proving this, show me fact on that and the psycho acoustical potential of the other thing an article comes along with the same topics and some REAL potential answers. I received my newest copy of "The Audiophile Voice" Vol.7, Issue1 today and on page 16 is an article written by David Blair and Bill Eisen titled "In The Matter Of Noise". The article focuses on disturbance noise but has some reference to thermal noise, low frequency noise and shot noise, and our ability to measure these noises with the equipment of today. We have measured noise as low as 6x10 to the power of -5, or approximately a few cycles per day. We have also found through laboratory testing that the human brain is stimulated with frequencies from just above 0Hz to just below 50kHz. U.S. Department of Defense documents also show studies of low frequency activity below measurable levels and there various affects.
The article then begins to talk about out of band (hearing) noise and in band noise produced by our electronic equipment and the potential of these noises effecting our sound system. The assumptions are that "disturbance noises rob our systems of dynamics, low-level information, tonal purity and stage depth". These effects are for the most part overlooked and misunderstood by the scientific communities. They say they think that our speakers being hit with "massive quantities of R.F.I. are affected" A very good quote referring to power filters was "Effective noise control imposes no sonic tradeoffs or downside." How often have the discussions here on Audiogon focused on what they are doing? A very interesting comment was that Teflon is capable of carrying 40-Kilovolts static charge, and the industry is touting this as a great insulator for audio signals, that's scarey!
Now I bring this to light because I believe the view of the "Scientists and Engineers" here on Audiogon is so narrow that they are failing to see the exciting challenges in front of them. If all these noises do exist, which they do, and they can be transmitted and received through our systems, isn't possible, just maybe feasible that the insulation of our wires, the casing of our dedicated lines the size and shape of the conductor could, just maybe effect the sound? Isn't it even possible that forces set off by electrical components could be interfering in some so far unmeasured and inaudible way affecting the sound. Do you all test within the full spectrum of 0Hz to 50Khz for every possible situation? Or is it possible, just ever so small of a chance that you are overlooking a whole new science yet unexplored. Doesn't that, even slightly excite your little scientific fossils?
Man if I was younger, healthier and wanted a challenge. This is a career if you'd just climb out from behind you oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzer and see the world is indeed still spinning, and yes, it is 2001. Remember how 30 years ago 2001 was going to be so exciting. What the hell have the Scientist, Engineers and Na-sayers who tote there stuff here on Audiogon done for the advancement of science. Anyone, have any of you really broken through! J.D.
128x128jadem6
Detlof, not that I mind, I often like your posts, but you seem ambivalent in your stand. Do you trust your ears or don't you? Honest answer please... cheers
Ha Kat, there you got me...its the old theological question between knowing and believing....Yes I trust my ears, but I don't know if I should. Satisfied? (-;
Detlof: We can all trust our ears up to a point. The trick is to know what that point is.
Jostler: Basically I do agree, but don't you ever feel the urge to break the boundaries of reason and what science tells us to expect and try to hear for more, if you know what I mean? You may well make a fool of yourself, but then perhaps not. Who knows....To me there is no way out of the dilemma.
Detlof, Im troubled by your response to the ABX "results" on the website Jostler referred you to. Without knowing the experience, listening skills or hearing acuity (word?) of the listeners, where they were, or what they listened to and what playback source, I still wouldnt be surprised that they couldnt tell any differences listening through the headphone jack of a Bryston 2B. Of course, if you read the other results, you will "learn" that so long as you are in 16 bit and solid state country, wire is wire, bits are bits and watts are watts. So sell all of your equipment except your speakers, go down to your local discount emporium and buy a cheap cd player and a receiver with enough power to drive your speakers.

In my experience, most cables Ive heard are very difficult to tell apart. So difficult I cant say with confidence that they are different. But with some, I have no doubts at all. The differences are in details that dont come through headphones or headphone jacks; palpable imaging, image specificity, layering. I dont know if these things can be measured at all. And Im sure my brother, who has no interest in this subject, would hear no differences at all.

I use inexpensive cables, even cheap ones, because (1) I'm cheap and would prefer all cables to sound alike, (2) the ones I use are good enough, (3) my playback system is affected more by my listening rooms and placement restrictions than by any wire, and (4) I'm not sure the differences I hear aren't caused by subtle changes in barometric pressure when I get up and down to change the cables.

So, I dont think cables are that important, but the ABX results on that website do nothing for me at all.