What Does Holographic Sound Like?

Mapman wrote,

"Here's an interesting gadget that might actually work as best I can tell and perhaps even help holography:

Harmonizer (by SteinMusic)

Might even have some quantum principles in its design.

Dunno.

Any insights?

Opinions are fine. Scientific principles that I might understand is better.

Not cheap though."

I find the SteinMusic Harmonizer fascinating.

Not that I care what Kal thinks, but:

Its not clear to me at all that that is what he believes. HE might mean that the listening room is the same which is true and that ambient information is there but not delivered exactly as recorded which I would also agree with.

Geoff, I care more that one being a technical person they do more diligence reading carefully and being clearer about what is their interpretation of what is read rather than asserting things that were not said.

Sabai -- Your disagreement with Geoff about Kal's views reminds me of my disagreement with him about Gravitational Lensing on the Magic thread. The point isn't really about the details of Kal's views or the details of Gravitational Lensing. It's about whether facts are being accurately represented or not. Unfortunately, even if you win this round, he will pivot to another topic. You have stumbled onto Geoff’s infinite staircase. Come to think of it, I think Machina Dynamica sells one of those.

As far as the views expressed in the quotes of Kal provided by Geoff, I am in agreement with at least one of them: Kal's observation that two channel playback results in a spatial presentation in the listening space that often differs from the spatial presentation in the recording space (assuming there was one). That is because, a two channel playback system presents whatever ambient cues the recording contains primarily from two directions – the direction of the two speakers. But the ambient cues in the recording space were presented from all directions.

The listening space itself can augment the ambient cues of the recording, and in the best cases, the ambient cues of the listening space RESEMBLE the ambient cues of the recording space. But for any particular system, there will be recordings for which the ambient cues of the listening space do not resemble those of the recording space. When that happens, what is heard at the listening position isn’t a fully accurate representation of the recording space.

Having said that, I depart from Kal's views (assuming I understand them) insofar as I believe that it is possible to construct a listening space that is, to some extent, acoustically ambiguous. In other words, a space in which the *apparent* size, shape, and materials of the room change from recording to recording. My own listening room doesn't fit that description, but I've been in professional recording and mixing spaces that do. IMO, to the extent that a listening space is acoustically ambiguous, the ambient cues of a wider range of recording spaces are more likely to be realistically represented.

As for the issue of "holographic" sound, I for one don't believe that a fully accurate representation of the recording space is necessary for the sound in the listening space to be "holographic." That is because, IMO, “holographic” sound is more about the realistic presentation of INSTRUMENTS AND PERFORMERS than it is about the realistic presentation of THE RECORDING SPACE ITSELF. And a two channel system is, IMO, quite capable of realistically presenting instruments and performers, even when it isn't a strictly accurate representation of the recording space. In other words, IMO, "holographic" sound is less about ACCURACY relative to the recording and more about REALISM relative to what instruments and performers actually sound like.

The ambient cues of the recording space may never make it to the listener, either because the recording does not contain them, the playback system misrepresents them, or the listening room alters them. Nevertheless, a playback system can still create the illusion that "They are Here." But when the ambient cues of the recording space are lost, what goes with it is the illusion that "You are There."

IMO, of course.

Bryon

"In other words, IMO, "holographic" sound is less about ACCURACY relative to the recording and more about REALISM relative to what instruments and performers actually sound like."

Bryon, that's a very good way to say it (as usual).

Its also a good reason why audiophiles who might not care otherwise should. Without it, instruments and performers sound less real.

I have at least one MErcury Perfect Presence LP that shows a diagram of where the players were located and the mikes during recording. This provides a useful reference regarding the accuracy of the players location while listening in your room. Relative positions should be and are distinguishable in at least two dimensions (width and depth), possibly even height (do not recall if the diagram indicated relative height of players as a reference).

0% of my other thousands of recordings have this information readily available as a reference. For many recordings not miked properly at a live performance, it becomes mostly irrelevant. SInce there is no practical reference, I pay no attention to that aspect. Only that what I am listening to sounds "real", and the 3-D imaging/holography helps enable that since sound is a 3 dimensional (actually 4) phenomenon. That's a big reason I think why I am fond of more omnidirectional (or even wider dispersion) speaker designs. SOund does not occur naturally in 1 dimension (width) only. ALthough more directional speakers combined with the rest might still do OK, its like fitting a square peg in a round hole.

"Only that what I am listening to sounds "real", and the 3-D imaging/holography helps enable that since sound is a 3 dimensional (actually 4) phenomenon. "

Surprizingly enough (at least to me at first) I've found that this even works for mono recordings, at least in some cases. It works best for me with either pair of my OHM Walsh omnis. Good mono recordings (remastered mono Muddy Waters for example) have a three dimensional ambiance to the point where sometimes I cannot tell for certain if it is a mono or stereo recording just by listening. Its an amazing thing! And with the OHM omnis, the 3-D image hold together coherently from most any listening position in from of the speakers. I can elect to listen from different seats in my listening room venue just like at a live performance and the only thing that changes is the perspective and sometimes, but not really in a noticeable way usually the timbre just very slighly since the OHM Walsh tweeters above 7-8 Khz or so are more directional. mbl omnis in comparison are full omni at all frequencies and very holographic as well set up well (maybe the best I have heard) but those crossover much lower and multiple times so the music is perhaps not quite as coherent or organic as the OHMs.

You gotta hear it to believe it sometimes I imagine.