Zyx mistracking issue


Hi all!
I experiment some mistracking issues with a Zyx R100H that I acquired on e-bay in 2012. My tech confirms that the tip is not worned out (I listen no more than 2-3 hours/week on average). My Zyx is mounted on a LP12 with a Zeta arm.

Has anyone experienced tracking issues with Zyx cartridges? All reviews I found stated a flawless tracking performance. Could it be some compatibility issue with the Zeta? Is the suspension particularly fragile? As a comparison my backup table is a Thorens TD160, grace 707 arm and grace F9e cartridge; this backup setup does not have mistracking issues despite its older age.

Thanks for any clue.
vepiteski


vepiteski
Exactly what do you mean by mistracking?
Distortion on loud passages, for instance on classical piano recordings in highly dynamic passages. Sibilance issues on test records https://www.discogs.com/fr/Unknown-Artist-Vinyl-Check/release/5813497track B1 for instance.
vepiteski

Your Grace is better suited  for the Zyx...although I would double  check your settup
I trippled checked the setup, increased vtf to 2.2g, fine tuned antiskate by ear. My next step is to try it in my backup table, i.e. the grace tonearm.
Thanks for the comment!
The zyx suspension is particularly fragile but I am not sure your problem is relative to that fact.
2.2g is well above the recommended range, is it not? That’s usually not a good way to combat perceived mistracking. What’s the effective mass of the zeta?
According to https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php?m=Zyx&mod=r100h&t=any&sort=2&Sear...=the tracking force is 1.7-2.5g. At 2.2g, I mistracking is much reduced on music recordings (piano) but still fails the sibilance test record.Also, the Zeta has an effective mass of 16g, and again from the vinylengine site, the match with the R100 is perfect.


Post removed 
Hey, just like any ZYX cartridges the compliance of your cartridge was measured at 100Hz, so your calculation with vinylengine is all the way wrong if you are not converted 100Hz to 10Hz before. I was in this quest too, lol

When i asked Mehran at SoraSound (official distributor) to confirm the 10Hz compliance with Nakatsuka-San, the answer was very strange, they could not tell me anything about 10Hz compliance to make my measurements correct. They said it’s dangerous to measure compliance at 10Hz, so they use 100Hz in Japan.

All Japanese cartridge manufacturer measure Dynamic Compliance @ 100 Hz (not at 10Hz like in our world).

As you can see on official site your model has 15×10-6cm/dyne (horizontal dynamic compliance at 100Hz) and 12x10-6cm/dyne for vertical.

What does that mean?
In our world you have to convert it to 10Hz (just multiply on 1.7)
The result will surprise you, but this is more or less correct:

**horizontal dynamic compliance: 25.5cu @10 Hz
**vertical: 20.4 cu @10 Hz

ZYX dynamic compliance is medium-high, it is probably the reason why the weight of them is light.

This is all you need to know before you will calculate resonance frequency.

I owned two ZYX cartridges before and even official distributor could not answer the simple question about "real" dynamic compliance.

I also experienced distortion in one channel on my ZYX Airy3, but only in burn-in period, and ONLY with Grey Market sample i bought from 2juki on ebay. My second sample was higher model Premium 4D SB and it was from SoraSound (USA), i can’t recall any problem with it.

Do you have grey market sample from 2juki ?


Why even think about a/s.....I've never met anyone that can hear the difference between too much a/s, too little a/s, or no a/s at all.  If your arm, setup, and cartridge were installed correctly, it doesn't matter.
Post removed 
Dear @vepiteski : Your tonearm/cartridge resonates at around 7hz and that does not seems to be the problem.

According your information you already put around 1000 playing hours on it and if you bougth second hand no one can knows how many additional hours to those 1K has the cartridge.

Your tech confirmed that the tip is ok but I would like to know if your tech checked the tip wit at least 500x microscope and if he is a experiemnetd cartridge tech.

The problem you have could belongs to a damaged stylus tip or carrridge suspension or a tonearm out of stability specs ( maybe at the tonearm bearing or because the internal wiring out of position ).

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.


raul is absolutely correct. That cartridge should do fine in that arm. The Grace is too light. Either your antiskate mechanism is not working correctly or you have a damaged cantilever suspension in which case the cartridge will have to be re manufactured. If you continue to use it you will permanently damage your records. 
vepiteski,  My apologies.  Apparently the VTF you've chosen is within the recommended range of the manufacturer.  Many times people try to cure a bit of mistracking (if that is your problem) by increasing VTF beyond the recommended range.  That's what I was warning against.
Thanks for all your comments.
@rauliruegas I had my LP12 checked by the tech at my local shop, an authorised Linn dealer; he checked the stylus tip, the arm bearings, and tuned the LP12; however, you are right in pointing out the >1000 hrs and this is why I wish to replace my cartridge in some near future.

However, according to the specs, Trackablity > 60μm. Using the HiFiNews test LP, +12db (~45 μm) tracks OK, but +14db begins to mistrack slightly, which seems coherent with the specs, and suggests that Zyx are not so great trackers.
If so, I might look elsewhere for a replacement: Zyx prices have doubled since I bought mine and I would prefer a better tracker.

@chakster I don't know its origin, I bought it from an individual on ebay, not 2juki but my seller may have bought it from 2juki???
A final remark, its sound is very good, absolutely nothing to complain about sound quality, I just happen to enjoy much piano music and am sometimes annoyed by mistracking on very dynamic passages... much less so since I increased VTF to 2.2g.

However, according to the specs, Trackablity > 60μm. Using the HiFiNews test LP, +12db (~45 μm) tracks OK, but +14db begins to mistrack slightly, which seems coherent with the specs, and suggests that Zyx are not so great trackers.
If so, I might look elsewhere for a replacement: Zyx prices have doubled since I bought mine and I would prefer a better tracker.

Interesting, because mine (both models) passed all tracks on Hi-Fi Test LP, the arm was Technics EPA-100 with stock shell and then with ZYX LIVE-18 headshell. I don't use ZYX anymore and i think you will find a much better cartridge, because your own ZYX is not even a top model. My advice is to look for something else when it comes to replacement.  

You could check Michael Fremers video on setting up VTA with mini microscope and software.
it will accurately measure any kind of distortion.
let me know how it goes.
Sounds that suspension is not working as it should any more, had the same issue with Yatra 2.
Tip was ok.

G
The thread is two years old, so unless the OP is not using vinyl since he started the thread, one must assume he has either moved on or solved his problem.  But he is describing the performance of a cartridge he bought used in 2012.  Which means it is more than 9 years old as of now, and neither he nor we know how it might have been treated before he purchased it. One cannot seriously diagnose and treat a problem like this on the internet.
Grace F9 is much better with genuine US-14 stylus, this is next generation of styli for F14 (fully compatible with F9). 

The goal of US-14 is MicroLine (ML) stylus tip. 
Sometimes it's hrad to understand what type of stylus Grace used, but when ML stamped on the box it's for MicroLine. Here is mine

ZYX is very expensive cartridge and useless whet the stylus is worn, waste of money. I do not regret I stopped using them (Airy III and Premium 4D). 

Life is much easier with MM cartridges. 
I pursued my investigation and finally bought a new AT-OC9ii fully compatible with my Zeta arm. It tracks absolutely flawlessly! I optimized the asimuth adjustment; you can read about my experience (in french) in a short report. http://info.usherbrooke.ca/jpdussault/Audio/Azimuth.pdfIn summary, I experimented with five cartridges, the Zyx, Grace F9e, a Shinon Saphic, a DV23RS and the AT-OC9. All but the AT have close to 800-1000 hours of usage. The Zyx is the worst tracker, the AT the best and the DV-23 a close second best despite its ~1000 hours of play and some 35 years old...

@analoghaven I don't succeed in using my mini microscope to photograph a still picture of a stylus, so I can't imagine viewing a moving one tracking a record!
My only experience with Zyx is 2 out of 3 purchased brand new had production faults. Wouldn't touch one wth a 40 foot barge pole even though I did like the Omega very much, when it was built properly.
On my french forum a lot of people have got problems with zyx. I have been told that on German forum some people were not satisfied with zyx cartridge too.
I have bought a Benz LPS after the zyx experience.
Really? I did own a few Zyx in the Past, Zyx1000, Airy, Universe ...and all we’re good. I used always good alignment tools and also from Graham his his jig from the Phantom Arm ... and a good table with no internal vibrations ... all I can say, the Zyx tip liked to collect dust or dirt from the grooves. I checked it regularly and cleaned them with my AT-637 ...
This is the first I have read anywhere of a problem endemic to ZYX cartridges in particular, although the internet audio sites are replete with complaints about just about any brand of cartridge you care to cite. I have been happy with my UNIverse, is all I can say. For sure, the fact that the OP had a problem 7-8 years after purchasing a used ZYX that was far from the top of their line to begin with means nothing.