Tvad,
Speaking of missing threads...is there any YOU have missed in the last 6 mos?? You are one amazing dude! ;-)
Jack,
My experience as a former 6381 and 6371 owner mimics Mondo's to some extent. The Ushers are very good indeed. Iv'e had a lot of nice things to say in the threads about the sound, design and just great looks of the speakers..But, after hearing the Druids at a friends home, and after much pleading with him to sell me his pair after he upgraded to the Defs..I can say that they are in another league in many ways...Especially because I listen in the quasi-near field or about 9-10 ft from the speaks,..The Druids are more coherent and seamless sounding..much better for my particular room..but, more than that, Their tone and texture is more realist and purer sounding. Bass is tighter by far, although not as powerful as the Ushers. I dont think the Ushers bass is anywhere near as accurate as the Zu, and that matters very much with respect to tonal coherence, and not getting in the way of the rest of the sound.
Like Mondonitro mentions, the single driver presentation is something that makes you aware of other speakers sounding more hi-fi, rather than real. The wide bandwith coherence is very pure and allows you to get much closer to the recording.The Zu's sound taking on a darker, more fleshy tone, over the Ushers laid back, but lighter weight upper ranges. Dynamically, its no comparison really...What the Ushers compressed when the music gets loud, the Druids just pass right through with ease..a much better free breathing and transparent quality to the sound. Its funny, I really loved the Ushers and thought very highly of them (still do),,,but, the Zu's just do it all better, cleaner,more resolution, less grain, less compression, tighter, more coherent bass..deeper soundstage, more precise imagaing, and better texture.Im sure pairing them with a low power 845 Triode amp is instrumental to that type of sound.
I cant even think about going back to a multi-driver, cross-over type speaker, or the limited dynamics Electrostat type planar after living with the Druids now. Not because they wont sound as good..but they dont sound as good in my room, to my ears. and Ive had way too many systems in and out of the room over the years to know that. I think I'd choose a high quality mini monitor in my room if I had not heard the Zu's. Nothing like a Klipsch as you mentioned tonally speaking. They share only the fact that they are both high sensitivity speakers.
Anyway, that's all my opinion of the differences from the Druids and Ushers as you asked for. Hope this little bit of non-wisdom helps. |
Duke,
Thanks. I did get that part of your post, and appreciate the support for explaining how the Druids can sound despite the measurements, especially those specs that appear in the review of Soundstage.(I have some thoughts on that at the end of this post.) I have always loved reading your threads and respect your wisdom and understanding of speaker designing and building, and comments from you regarding the Zu's interesting and intruiging designs are a great resource and welcomed info.. Not something everyone (especially me) can do, and do well. If anyone is qualified to ad anything helpful and constructive here it definitely is you.So, no dis-respect to you.
My rant is only due to the limited comments from those who have actually listened and compared by their own experience, in their own systems, the speakers the orig. posted lsited as asking for help with, namely the Usher 6 series and Klipsch in particular. I just see so many comments, and so little real info and answers of what was being asked for.
I assumed the orig. poster saw many threads as mentioned in his post, and had a chance to read them..but alas, some here are quick to take a "ho-hum"..here we go again stance. Did they own 6 series Usher or Klipsch speaker and then own Druids to make a fair comparison?? If so, they dont say such was the case. That really was my main point in my rant.
I will say this as to the Druids. They are critical as to set up, regardless of those that feel they are easliy placed within the room. I have read that they can be placed very close to the front wall and sound great, but like most designs I have used, they are much better placed well out in the room. The Cardas ratio seems to work well in my instance. I think many give up, or are unwilling or unable as the case is, and thus sell them, perhaps too soon, without taking the time to work with them, place them and toe them for best sound. Once set up and tweeked and fed good electronics, they shine nicely.I am floored at how much good bass there is in the speaker!
Anyway, thanks and apologies to all for my rant. ;-)
Regards,
Ken |
Macro...I agree completely!! Why does this happen so frequently? I posted my impressions of the Zu's sound in comparison to the Ushers as the original posted requested...NO one else makes mention with the exception of Mondonitro about how the Ushers compare or that they heard them at all.
Look you are all entitled to your opinions and offer your suggestions, but lets keep to the posters query,and not make it a platform to grandstand your knowledge of speaker designing,, share scientific measurements that dont offer any help at all as to the sound of any speaker, much less a comparison of two differnt designs, or bash a very sucessful company (Zu) who got it right and still has many detractors who cry over that fact.. Im sure Mr. Jack Dotson is left scratching his head over all this...come on man! |
Agreed.
Jack, go get some Druids! ;-) |
Congrats Jack!...They are the latest Druids. Zu is selling the remaining stock of matte black and will be going to gloss black production as well as the other colors. But, the matte finish has ended, thus this sale it appears. I dont think the 60 day refund applies(I didnt see that it the ad... could be wrong on that..) however you can verify that with Zu. Either way, you can always sell them for your paid price(or close to it)..let us know how they sound. I believe Zu breaks them in for ~100 hours in-factory, but you will definitely want to get at least 200 hours logged on them to sound very good.
regards,
Ken |
Hey Jack...Jack!!! Wait!!! I need a vacation too!! |
Jack,
I agree that your room at those dimensions are not doing the Ushers well. One thing I wanted was a better near field speaker, and would say that the Druids fit that requirement very well. My room is 19 x22 x 8 and I still thought the Ushers ( both 81's and 71's)could benefit from a larger space
Some interesting comments no doubt from all of us above, and we are glad to help. Let us all know what you ultimately wind up doing.
Ken |
Jack,
Appreciate your post regarding your initial perspective of the Druids sound. Thanks for sharing.Its obvious you hear some of what they do very well in terms of harmonic coherency and tonal truthfullness.
I find it interesting also your noting that at this point they wouldn't hold up to the Ushers in terms of bass extension (agree with that, hands down)..but in terms of "bass detail.imaging, soundfield width or depth,seperation or air around the instruments" to para quote... I found just the opposite in my experience//The Ushers were way too "hi-Fi", laid back, and were quite image challanged compared to the huge soundstage and depth of the Druids..Not to disagree with your findings, as your system and room are different than mine of course as well as equipment..
I will say that paired with a very good SET amp such as my Dared 845..the match is heavenly and just blows past anything I had with the Ushers at any point.
I suspect( and as you rightly mention) you need lots of break-in time and tweeking. Its critical (Very critical in fact) to size the gap at the base plates so allow the bass to work properly. Too much gap = bass overhang and is un-tuneful..to little= lack of bass and thin sound. Get the gap right and its well balanced, tuneful and just right. I used the jewel case of a cd to adjust to its height..very much like a feeler guage..this way I knew I was accurate and matched. Make sure they are at least 4 or more ft from the front wall..this really get them a huge soundfield and depth. In my set up..I towed them just to the outside of my ears..I could just see the inner sides of the speakers as I sat in the sweet spot.In my set up..this "locks" me in so-to-speak.Excellent!
Last week,I added Zu's mini method and I am thrilled with it. This will really put them in the killer catagory IMO. Seamless agumentation in the low end.
Dont be timid to try a good SET amp..Thats where the Druids shine. Having heard them with several SS and El-34 based amps were okay..but nothing compared to a true SET amp's sound. Its there youll find the sweetness of the Druids in the soundstage, depth and imagaing dept.
All this said..Let me congratulate you on your purchase and wish you many years of enjoyment with them.
I just found a nice pair of Quads to play with ( always wanted them!!)..Ill set them up for awhile, but I know Ill likely keep the Druids for what they are capable of, even if the Quads sound excellent, theres something very special about the Zu's in my room!
Best,
Ken |
Ah...so you dont have the Druids placed on something hard like a slab or granite base? This is important to do, since it will focus and tune the down firing slot loaded area under them. Carpet will only diffuse and make the bass weak, wooly and soft. Take a look at my system pic and see what I mean. The base's make a dramatic difference.
Its a shame you cant get them out further than 2 feet..but we have to work around what we have.
My room is 19x22x8 and opens into a hallway/ dining area. The 845 amp puts out 18W and is more than enough for my set up. I didnt use this amp with the Ushers, but used several such as Manley Stingray, a modded Jolida 502A, McIntosh 6100 integrated and a Plinius SA 250 on the 81's at one point (first amp used on the 81's when they were new) All with good results. But, as mentioned previously. If you can run a SET amp at some point..by all means do it!
Enjoy!
Ken |
Jaybo, The Ushers are very good. Ive owned 2 pairs.. But, classics? come on really? |
Krausz,
I have not tried the Zu IBIS or Varial..I bought the Libtecs from a memeber who upgraded to the IBIS cable and in our chat, he mentioned (quite profoundly) that the Libtecs were so very close to the IBIS in his system, that it was not a very big step sonically...just cost$$$ wise for him. He also said the same for the Gede's vs. the Varial. Now, Im not saying "I" would not hear any difference in my system or that the IBIS is not worth the price..dont get me wrong, just that I am extremely happy with the current cabeling used. I also tend to think of my system as one which is more modest and less all out..thus, I dont think I should put Zu's absolute best with my gear. Kind of keeping a price/performance ratio so to speak. But, I certainly wouldn't mind trying them if the opportunity came along.
As for the Druid set up. I used the thickness of one cd jewel case for the gap under the Druids.That worked out the best for my set up sonically.
I would think any rather hard surface under the Druids will work well, and surely better than soft carpet. I have seen several guys use anything from wood boards, or the Druids placed on hardwood flooring..to more expensive marble or granite slabs such as I use.. (mine are 18x18x 3/4" marble slabs) Your set up sounds good with the flooring you described.Should work fine.
Best--Ken |
