All I am going to say is that I have followed this discussion from the beginning. I now have two more names to add to my list of people I won't buy from or sell to, and their names aren't Ralph or Charles. |
I know that Atmasphere isn't a large corporation, but wouldn't they keep records of things like this, or isn't there a serial number that Tubes108 could provide that would clarify age etc?
At this point, Tubes108 seems to have bowed out of the conversation, and I guess I don't blame him. |
Of course, no product is going to suit everyone when it comes to sound and/or system compatibility, so I make no claims that way. However, one thing that I do feel is true is the reliability and support that Atma Sphere provides in their product.
Two things to potentially consider in regard to the issue at hand:
1) Atma Sphere used to offer their amps in kit form. Obviously, once someone undertakes their own build, all bets are off. At that point, the final result reflects the builder as much or more than the actual product or company providing said product.
However, as that time was both very long ago and very recent, I would guess this pair of amps didn't come via the kit route
2) A lot of people over the years have modified their Atma Sphere amplifiers. Again, using the kit rationale, at that point, what comes out of that now more aligns with the person performing the upgrade, as opposed to what they started with, or the company who manufactured the product.
I'm not saying one of these two scenarios explains what happened, but they are two possible explanations to add into the mix. |
Tubes,
If I've followed this correctly, you purchased your amps new. So I'm curious:
Which dealer did you buy your amps from?
Is it possible that your dealer took back a mint appearing pair of amps that had been unknowingly (or knowingly, I suppose) modified by a customer and subsequently re-sold them to you as new?
The reason that I ask is because someone, somewhere in the timeline is simply not being truthful. Maybe (hopefully?) it was a third party to this thread.
Ralph has a boatload of credibility around here with many folks, including me. I intend in no way to disparage you with these comments (there's absolutely no basis for that, either), but it's hard to reconcile your story with Ralph's response.
From my own experience with an early production SA-1, I can tell you that Atmasphere was straight up with me regarding product limitations and shortfall in expectations. IIRC, there was an early factory mod that Atmasphere implemented to improve the flexibility of mating that model with trickier loads. Ralph extended that offer to me even though the problem was in my loudspeaker matching decision rather than any inherent problem with the product, itself. Your account is so sharply at odds with my own experience with Atmasphere that I'm left scratching my head.
However, if your starting point was different than Ralph expected (because the amps had been modified), I suppose that it's possible the discrepancies in these two narratives could be reconciled. Ralph's repair/installation advice could have been misguided if the circuit that he was working on was different than he thought it was (i.e., modified). That still leaves some potentially imprecise work when the units were returned for repair, but that kind of thing (unfortunately) happens from time to time, even when all involved are well inentioned.
Beyond that, I will say that this is one of the oddest episodes that I've ever encountered in these forums. |
Kiddman, Tubes108 was referring to a set of MA-1s.
I have made plenty of mistakes in my career and I try to be the first to admit that. However I still have troubles with Tubes108's testimony. Again, we would not have built a pair of amps wherein one used stranded wire and the other solid wire. We have sent parts to customers for field repairs in the past but there is still something wrong with this picture that has me suspicious. We have a fairly relaxed warranty - its transferable, and while usually three years, depending on circumstances we will extend the warranty quite a lot further.
For example one time a vendor sold us some bad power transformers. It turned out that their faults could not be tested accurately on the bench and a number of them made it into the field. The company policy is we replace them under warranty regardless of the age of the amp.
Now what is bugging me here is that if there was an under-rated resistor value in the output section, that would have required a complete rebuild of the output section itself to repair. I know I would have felt really nervous about someone doing that in the field and it seems unlikely that I would have allowed that as there are some very critical connections in the output section- instead we would have handled it here.
**At the very least, these amps would have been bought used, and likely modified- they did not ship from us to Tubes108!**
Further, there is no place in the preamp wherein a diode could be installed backwards such that it could damage a resistor, let alone one that was part of the Caddock resistor package option!! FWIW though, some of the Caddocks are gray to start with, while others of the same value are black. If a diode was installed incorrectly, the preamp could not have passed testing or the listening testes. It would have blow fuses or one channel would have had no gain!
IOW the more Tubes108 reveals, the more I doubt his testimony.
Tubes108 cannot be contacted through this site like many members can, so there has been no mechanism to contact him directly to sort this out. His testimony isn't credible so I am forced to believe he has an agenda. He has certainly made no effort to contact us, which IMO would be something that someone on the up and up would have done at this point.
In short, I think this is all made up. |
Lse, I guess you have never read Stereophile and Sam Tellig's love affair with Triangle Loudspeakers? Tellig has spent vacation time at the factory in France. He would make a great poster child for Triangle,he loves them that much.
I'm not dissing Triangle but your comment is a bit ironic considering your speaker preference,it had me LOL.
Oh,and a very good thread Zavato. |
Audiolabrynth, it was only that one particular pair I'm talking about, original Novachrons, guessing 15 years ago. No use beating a dead horse, old history, I only weighed in due to the unfair beating it looked like Tubes 108 was starting to get. |
I bought a pair of the now-discontinued B&W 703 speakers and ended up returning them. The pair were store demos and were well broken in. Really muddy sounding. I ended up getting a pair of terrific Triangle speakers.
As far as the "great review/disappointing sounding" syndrome mentioned by a few folks posting, I have learned to immediately discount any review where the reviewer writes about his long personal friendship with a manufacturer's owner. Also, any reviewer who combines his or her (although, it's always a him) vacations with a factory tour merits extra scrutiny. |
Kiddman, Is it the atmasphere amps you speak of being problematic or a particular model atmasphere amps problematic? |
I guess synergy has everything (or at a lot) to do with it.
I've had several vpi tables, incl. 3 different types of TNT, Lenco mod rim drives, (some over $4K) Technics 10, yada, yada, yada, but the rim drive TT Gem has been stable, reliable and quiet and I've trusted Larry on motor/controller upgrade and newer platter and each did exactly what he said it would. It's the best table I've had in 40 years and I trade a lot.
I've also liked every Nelson Pass amp and design I've heard or owned. They would sound threadbare in some systems/with some listening bias unlike mine.
VAC 30/30, Rowland 301s, various digital amps (including Rowland), every Onyx amp I ever tried, even some ARC's just didn't work out at all, but some of those sounded good in some friends systems.
I don't work for TT Weights or have any relationship with their products, just hate to see a product that I've used and liked for several years, with fantastic customer service, singled out as a "bad piece" without some context or explanation.
Your mileage may differ/always trust your ears. |
Congrats guys for coming about and giving Tubes 108 a fair shake. I heard of this particular set of amps. Problematic indeed. |
Tubes108, my apologies. I lost sight you were just participating in the thread. |
Jwm,
I think that part of the point that Tubes108 was trying to make was that he was not so much "upset" with Atmasphere, but like everyone else on this thread, was relaying what he considered his most disappointing purchase. |
Yes we are all human and mistakes happen. If there was problems with a manufactures unit, I feel they should fix them to a satifactory level. If the unit was bought used of course I would expect a charge if out of warranty. You have every right to be upset if this was not done or fixed. |
Tubes108, Hi, I am sorry, I appoligize to you, I did not mean for you to take what I said like that, no, I do not work for atmasphere at all, I just enjoy his post to all of us members, he has helped me a few times with answers to my questions on the threads, Ralph is a likeable member, but you post to me was valid indeed, thus, the appology. |
"all but the most astute wouldn't take notice" not would. |
Hi Tubes
I certainly expected that you had some sort of problem and that it wasn't completely fabricated. I had no need to question your initial post nor did I but when the manufacturer of said product went on the record to say it never happened. It is the ONLY reason I responded as you seemed satisfied not to rebut it in your second post. You indicated that this happened when you were "young and naive", maybe decades ago? Or are you still young but less naive? In any case if it happened many moons back it may explain why Ralph doesn't recall it happening. Obviously SOMETHING happened and if you are offering your experiences with a product(s) that are being completely disputed by the offending party wouldn't you want to go on the record to clarify it to everyone reading? Your comments about his business agenda, well Al Marg summed up my sentiments concerning that although you see it differently, fine you're certainly entitled to that conclusion. This is where I detected a bit of "bitter", maybe not?
Yes, I am guilty as charged of being a 3rd party observer however I have no relationship with Atma-sphere in any capacity nor have I owned any of their products but I certainly know folks that own or have with few issues I'm personally aware of and certainly not the recurring problems you encountered with different Atma-sphere products. Yes, I do admire Ralph and value his contributions which more often than not touch on areas beyond endorsing his products in those most subtle ways all but the most astute would take notice. No offense to you intended if any was taken and thank you for your clarification. |
Tubes108,
I know that Ralph of Atmasphere enjoys a good reputation and is generous in these forums with advice etc, and he and his company are as able as any of us to make a mistake.
All that I would like to add is that I have felt from your first post on this thread that you were being truthful.
I thought your last long post was clear and concise, and answered all of the allegations that you really didn't have an obligation to respond to. I agree with you that you contributed your experience like anyone else, and did not deserve to be butchered for it.
These forums can be very brutal at times. |
Hi Tubes108,
First of all I don't doubt your individual experience with the AtamaSphere components and said so in an earlier post. I was not questioning your credibility, only suggesting that complaints about those products are rare in regards to reliability/dependability.
I know you've own some very fine brands (and I listed some of them). I was curious if they had caused you similar grief, my intentions were nothing more than that. The Joule is another OTL you've owned and I simply mentioned it for comparison to the AtmaSphere.
You have every right and opportunity to cite your disappointing product experiences just the same as everyone else who's responded on this thread. I hope this clarifies my posts on this topic. Tubes108, witch hunts aren't for me.
Charles, |
Tubes108 - I sincerely apologize for my previous post supporting Ralph based upon his reputation and credibility. I shouldn't have gotten involved and discounted your experience with the amps in question. I'd like to know how the Tandberg repair shop can justify an 24+ year repair that is still not resolved. Good luck in resolving these issues and I hope that you can at least get some enjoyment out of listening to your other gear. |
Yes Roxy, I too remember hearing the Kav Krell 300i integrated a few times at a dealer many years back. If I recall it wasn't too expensive, at least not for a Krell but it wasn't at all impressive, actually much worse than that but it did have a nice case and low profile, if looks are important. I'm sure a few unsuspecting purchasers got hoodwinked on that one. |
Regarding Krell KAV 300i: I had it for some years, and though I would not call it my worst buy, we never became friends. I changed to Krell KAV 250a + 250p (two boxes). In terms of price/quality, the 250p was perhaps my worst disappointment. I still remember the big smile when I changed to the Aesthetix Io. Hello, music! That was with Krell FPB600, the first Krell I liked. In fairness, it should be said that I sold the ones I did not like (and eventually also the 600) for OK prices, I lost money, but it could have been worse.
Regarding Atma-sphere amps, I can only report my own satisfaction over the last couple of years with MA-1s. Sometimes, a tube can blow or arc, yes, it happens in all tube gear, but the amps have functioned with zero problems otherwise. The upgrades have been fairly priced and worth the money. Also, customer help and just general communication with Ralph is a big plus. To me, in my system, this is music in a way I never got it, with the Krell (and Dynaudio Consequence speakers). So I would encourage other A-goners to explore OTL sound (I have no commercial interest whatever). And as you will understand, with experience from three steps of the Krell ladder before I moved up (yes, up) to the MA-1s, I read Stereophile with great caution. "Almost tubelike"!! They said that about the FPB600, back in 97, and recently about a new big s-state amp. I have heard it before. "Almost"? Not to my ears. |
So far it appears that the Krell integrated may be winning on votes as the most hated audio purchase. |
In the late 80's I was returning from a long overseas assignment and looking to re-enter the audio hobby. I visited a local dealer and heard a Krell 300 integrated with a Meridian CDP and Thiel CS1.5 (could have been 1.2's) speakers. I thought my ears would start to bleed. Just horrible |
Krell kav 300i - just horrible.
Plinius 9200 - the mids were MIA.
Musical Fidelity A5 integrated and CDP - very unmusical and sterile.
Trelja, basically, what's been implied here by you in not politically-correct language is that Robert Lee doesn't know a thing about crossover design, and coated paper drivers qualify as plastic. Correct me if I'm wrong. |
Parasound CD1. I had high expectation for the Parasound, but my cheaper Emotiva ERC-3 sounded better! |
"I have had junk audio in my life time that is more reliable than alot of today's High- End audio."
I think there is some truth to that.
Was it truly junk then if at least reliable?
Reliability is an often overlooked attribute when it comes to the quest for the "ultimate" sound. I would expect the good expensive stuff to also the the MOST reliable. Its worth nothing if it doesn't work, right?
Personally, I never drop big bucks out of the gate on one off boutique type brands. I do test the waters with less expensive product offerings from such companies though if justified. Problem with many boutique lines is cost of entry is always high so a significant "leap of faith" may well be needed.
Another problem is that once one drops big bucks on gear, in some cases to vendor that might mean deep pockets for service to keep things going as they should. Especially if the feeling is when working it will alternately also have to cost a fortune to replace |
I have had junk audio in my life time that is more reliable than alot of today's High- End audio. |
I remember bringing home, on loan from my local audio dealer, on separate occasions, a Mark Levinson amp and a pair of Thiel spkrs. Both of the items were being raved about in the audio press but the amp got a solid 'meh' and the Thiels' were a complete disappointment. The only item I've ever bought and was disappointed by was the original Phillips CD recorder, due to it producing so many duds. I'd say it had a 25-35% failure rate! That said, I still recorded a load of CD's with it until replacing it with a Pioneer Elite and later a Tascam, both of which very rarely failed/fail me. |
"you would think at these prices, High- end Audio would be more reliable"
I would expect that, not just think it. |
I agree, only because they extended the warranty anyway, you would think at these prices, High- end Audio would be more reliable!, In the 90s, this was alot less of an issue! |
I've never bought anything that really sucked sonically.. I've had a Creek Destiny that just blew out a channel and getting it repaired was a 4 month nightmare. I also have a W4S Dac 1 that recently had a channel just crap out.. That sort of pissed me off since I missed the warranty by a few months and in the interim W4S increase their warranty from 3 to 5 years but wouldn't cover my very rare failure under the new warranty terms since when I bought mine it was three years.. I think they should have done it as good will, but oh well.. |
Ralph, I believe you, you exsposed the circumstances, this is good you looked into this, I have had similiar problems as Tubes108, However, Mine was very real, and I had to force a complete refund for the componet, very nasty deal,took 3 to 4 months of arguing and a lawyer! hope I never go through that again in my life! |
Tubes108,
You've owned Viva, Quicksilver and Joule power amplifiers (good taste) did you have any reliability problems with these?
Charles, |
As far as I can figure, he's making it up, its certainly not anything in warranty. Per my Atmasphere equipment. I was young and naive, assumed there was a common goal to make those purchased-new products work properly. After more than a yr of efforts at repairs I realized my goal differed from others. Even our first amps and preamps were designed to be easy to service; this was because I worked in a number of consumer electronics repair operations while putting myself through engineering school. Since we never wired a single amp with stranded wire (unless it was supplied by the customer; before we got our own custom wire made, we had a jig that allowed us to strip a solid core wire from coax cable), I am very confident that Tubes story is 100% made up. He has some form of agenda that has nothing to do with audio. Either that or he has totally confused us with someone else. |
Damn Ralph, whats going on here?, contact tubes108 and see if his warranty is valid, did you void it?, help the ole guy out, he may not deserve it, call his bluff! |
Even God has a few disgruntled customers.....:^) |
I think I am sticking with my original assessment on this one. |
08-11-14: Tubes108
A side comment, and of course to each their own, I feel any manufacturer that posts frequently is self serving on a subtle to an overt level and takes advantage of an under-the-gun manner to advertise product. IMO it is incontrovertible that Ralph's many posts over the years have helped a great many people in a great many ways. If in fact his business has derived some benefit from those posts, I see nothing wrong with that. It seems to me to be an example of what is often referred to as a "win-win" situation. Regards, -- Al |
Tubes108,
I have no legitimate reason to question your experience with the Atmasphere products. I give people who post here the benefit of doubt unless they subsequently give me a reason not to. My point was that these products have been around for quite a long time and have established a very good reputation for quality and reliability. That doesn't mean that there may have been the rare lemon from time to time(true for any company). I hardly ever read that Atmasphere owners are complaining about service or reliability issues. I can understand your specific situation and frustration, it doesn't appear to be widespread problem however.
Charles, |
"You suggested that my equipment must be the exception to the rule regarding Atmasphere as a friends Atmasphere components work fine. From a statistical or logical level that suggestion does not compute."
Tubes 108 your comment above that Charles's impressions based on his friend's ownership of Atma-sphere components, "work fine" and your situation may be "the exception to the rule" and you disagree from "a statistical or logical level that suggestion does not compute"
Why is it not logical or does not compute? Could you reference the date of the Sterophile review and the date of your particular situation, it might help in giving perspective to your charges. It seems you had a problem but by your last comment (the last paragraph of your last post) you seem to have an ax to grind. Why aren't you addressing your issues on this thread directly to Ralph after his response? After all it is he, not Charles that you should be responding to WITH some details and dates. Continuing with comments through a a 3rd party is questionable.
This product has been around for a while. Maybe in their early days they had quality control issues and they didn't address those issues in the manner that a new owner might expect, I don't know. All I'm suggesting is that there is not a complete picture of your grievance and you seem very bitter towards this company but you provide scant information for the reader to conclude that your information is totally credible. |
Ah, the Taylo 7u posted by Csmgolf reminds me of my own experience owning Taylo Reference monitors (Revelator tweet) -- these things sounded GREAT, except for the lacking low end (monitors that size can't have good bass). I thought I'd upgrade to the newer Linbrook Signature Monitors to get those same sweet minds & highs with a bit more low end extension. Bought them used from Tyler Acoustics for $2200 with stands (I think those were extra). They were horrible from top to bottom; wooly and completely lacking the magic and sparkle of the Taylos. They weren't broken; they just didn't sound good. And I can't tell you exactly how ugly they looked on those pedestal stands -- just the wrong sizes and proportions on a very large scale.
Shortly after this experience I made 2 more big mistakes: 1. Legacy Signature III: these weren't nearly as bad as the Linbrooks, but they weren't great either. 2. Sunfire Signature II amp: worst sounding stereo amp I've ever had in any of my systems. Completely defeats the purpose of having unlimited power on tap if you can't stand to listen at any volume. A PS Audio HCA-2 ran musical circles around it, and a Parasound A21 made it a laughingstock.
Also gotta give a dishonorable mention to Grado RS-1 headphones, since they're so overpriced and their sound quality is extremely overrated. Plus, the build quality of the units around 2005-7 was awful.
Ah, feels good to get some of the hate out. I'm SURE I've forgotten plenty of others...for now. |
Atmasphere, you don't have anything to worry about. Yes we're human but your reputation is SOLID.
I'm NOT a customer of yours but was seriously considering the MA-2s. |
Ralph, your well established credibility on this forum and in the industry as a whole leads me to agree with your assessment of this alleged situation. It sounded like a very unlikely scenario from the beginning. |
Re. Atma-sphere. Charles, your posts are well thought out and valued. My matched monoblocks differed drastically from each other internally and had numerous problems including emitting profuse amounts of smoke and there were numerous problems with a preamp. You suggested that my equipment must be the exception to the rule regarding Atmasphere as a friends Atmasphere components work fine. From a statistical or logical level that suggestion does not compute.
Also I didnt state anything global about Atmasphere product reliability/service. Now that you mentioned that, the 1st I heard about Atmasphere issues was in the Stereophile review of the Atmasphere MP-1. Read it--during his lengthy use of the MP-1 the reviewer experienced so many problems that his review detailed why he no longer used the preamp as his reference. Digging into old posts on audio bulletin boards, assuming those contentious threads were not all deleted, provides additional viewpoints.
Per my Atmasphere equipment. I was young and naive, assumed there was a common goal to make those purchased-new products work properly. After more than a yr of efforts at repairs I realized my goal differed from others.
Rpeluso. I agree Ralph comes across in a professional manner. Still, that someone posts has no bearing on anything other than he posts. A side comment, and of course to each their own, I feel any manufacturer that posts frequently is self serving on a subtle to an overt level and takes advantage of an under-the-gun manner to advertise product. |
It seems that the issues that Tubes108 is talking about did not occur. I say that because I've not heard of this event and this company is too small for something like this to slip by me.
I take issues with a number of comments in the post- for example the preamps don't 'blow tubes'! We use a custom wire for internal hookup- so there would not have been one amp built with stranded wire and the other built with solid core. They would have both been solid core- we don't even stock a stranded hookup wire. Further, his comments about changing resistors to save time and 'Some directional components within the preamp were installed backwards', seem just dead wrong to me- the preamp is not likely work with electrolytic caps installed backwards(!) and certainly not with diodes either, on top of that we play each piece for 3 days to a week prior to shipping.
It does not surprise me that a power tube could have arced in one of our amps. We have seen tube failures (arc-over being the main failure mode) for 38 years. The amps are built to survive such events- its nothing new. We warrant the tubes for a year and its most likely that we will see failure of tubes immediately after shipping, depending to some degree on the shipping itself. But especially with the MkIII models (introduced 10 years ago) and newer, we have yet to see a tube failure damage the amp. However if Tubes108 was inside the product changing resistors to different values as he says, it is possible that this caused some of the damage he describes.
Right now I am feeling very much like this was some sort of drive-by potshot as neither I nor any of my staff can recall such an event. We are human of course, so we have a warranty to take care of the fact that we are not perfect, and our gear is entirely hand-wired, so there is certainly a human element. So I concede that we don't have a perfect record of shipment without failure or screwup on our part- that comes with the territory! But what I am seeing described is failures in all three products sent to one customer, in particular that details presented are not only unlikely but some of them are flat outright impossible, so I take this post as some sort of trolling event where there is possibly an underlying agenda. |
"My most disappointing purchase or audition?"
First wife 8^( Should have stuck with the audition... and passed on the purchase. |
Trelja,
From a philosophical standpoint I agree with much of what you wrote in your post. I owned a speaker with a series crossover(Harmonic Precision Echelon, 12 ohm load) and it was very good. For what ever reason the AZ Crescendo impressed me and was natural in sound (a must have for me).I do find that many modern "high resolution" speakers have a somewhat artificial character that strikes me as hifi rather than natural music reproduction. I definitely relate to your perspective in general.
Jwm, I've said all I'm going to say about Magico, to each their own.
Charles, |
Thank you for providing the link, Al!
It's quite strange in exactly what you said being true, the same point is made over and over again. I find it doesn't lend tremendous insight into the design of the AZ loudspeakers. At any rate, forgive me for reading between the lines, as it's all I have to continue the conversation with...
It seems the focus is on materials. Robert Lee, who we've hosted in our audio society, and was the consummate gentleman, may have a background, as do I, as a material scientist/engineer.
However, I can say that my career in that realm provided me with little in the way of what makes a speaker good or bad. Interestingly enough, that happened during a time when there were a lot more audiophiles, and I was just one among a larger crowd in a company of just 65 people. I would likewise say that none of our diverse (ceramics, metals, polymers, organic/inorganic chemistry, physicists, etc.) backgrounds in the field endowed us with loudspeaker knowledge. As an aside, we did make the raw materials for products used in the high-end audio industry such as Vishay and Caddock resistors, though I can assure you high-end audio was not the aim of those companies, or ours for that matter.
Getting to have Bud Fried as a mentor taught me that it's the crossover that plays more a role in how a speaker sounds than anything else, and has a huge impact in the sort of impedance curves you're especially fond of. Most have forgotten Bud, but it was the series crossover, and not transmission line bass loading that he considered the most important component of his outstanding loudspeakers.
Today, companies put a lot more emphasis in cabinetry, and finishing of such. That seems to separate the more serious products today, as investing a lot in tomblike dead cabinets, book matched veneers, and multi-step finishes allow companies to charge tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars for a products pre Y2K went for $2-$10K. After cabinetry, driver technology garners the focus, though it doesn't take much creativity, skill, or intelligence to pick from the upper echelon Scan Speak or Seas product lines. I'll return to Bill Legall of Millersound, who doesn't give a hoot about the cost or reputation of a driver, but when you put it in his hands of 50+ years of experience, and just by playing with for a minute or two, he can tell you if it's going to sound good or not. Funny thing is, he'll often pick up a 1972 paper cone Pioneer driver, and show you why it works better than the latest and greatest from Dynaudio.
No, in my opinion, it's that area no one sees or really thinks about, apart from perhaps upping the parts quality, the crossover that separates the wheat from the chaff. We live in an age where we just assume that an outfit that put as much care and effort into putting those expensive drivers into a furniture grade box will also get the crossover right. Except, as it's no longer plunge routers and 1000 grit sandpaper, but mathematics that come into play here. And, I hope no one's under the illusion that our society has the same level of math chops we used to possess.
A good friend of mine builds loudspeakers. Mind you, he came from an engineering background, so the ins and outs of crossovers should not present something that scares him away from mastering. I listened to them over and over again, and always came across the same oddity in them. Finally, one day, he showed me the values, and I immediately told him one of them is off by a factor of 10; a classic case of the decimal point getting moved one place. It was pretty clearly cut and obvious, though his reaction was one of sticking his head in the sand. I told him we could quickly confirm everything by working the numbers out in Excel, but he wanted to run the other way. When I asked him about how he came up with the numbers, his answer was that a mutual friend of ours gave them to him, and he didn't feel comfortable even thinking about a change. OK, but there's the mystery of the sonics unraveled. In fact, it was no longer a mystery at all.
The upshot of this being I no longer have much faith in loudspeaker manufacturers having any idea of what they're doing in regard to what I consider the most important factor in how a loudspeaker sounds. AZ seems to produce good cabling, and using that in their loudspeakers might draw interest for very legitimate reasons. But in the end, if a company doesn't do well in the mathematical formula of the crossover, those expensive drivers and boutique crossover parts in the beautiful can only take one so far.
Finally, I must apologize for lack of clarity. A few people have written to me in regard to my use of the word "plastic" to describe the AZ sound. As folks like Charles have mentioned, there's a certain naturalness to paper drivers that result in that musical sound so many of us love. Plastic is the opposite of that. Instead of naturalness, the sound is something that comes off as odd or off. Guitar folk like to talk about tone, and for many, that's the be all and end all. In short, it's the tone that so very wrong, and that's what I mean by the description, plastic. Hope that helps... |
Charles my free get out of jail card worked. Welcome back, this forum would not be the same without you. Now lets get back to Magico. |
