Ohm Walsh huh? I'll look into them. Revel and Golden Ear seem like good candidates too from what I've heard. Agreed about B&W's, I've owned them in the past and should know better.
I liked the Totem Forest signatures but thought they were overpriced at $6K. I'd like to hear the VA's but don't think anyone has them nearby.
If they weren't such an eyesore (or I was single), I'd buy the Maggie 1.7's or 3.7's in a heartbeat. Love the sound especially with the tube Cary preamp I'll be scoring with the insurance settlement.
Sadly beauty just in the ear of the beholder isn't enough for the married man. |
Actually the sales manager at Cary Audio recommended Dynaudio, Proac, Magnepan, and a few others (can't believe I wasn't taking notes!!). |
I heard the Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grands and liked them. The whole time I was thinking something like this with the scale and size of a full floor stander would be better.
But it seems like the Baby Grand is better regard eroded than the concert grand. True? |
I never heard of the Verity speaker line before starting this thread but ended up buying nice pair of used Parcifal Ovations used on Audiogon.
Thanks for your help! |
I'm really excited about receiving these. Barring another electronic meltdown I'm expecting these to be keepers. Now the expense will come by upgrading all my electronics. I think my Cary solid state amp will be up to the task - but combined with the Cary SP-98L tube pre might be a bit warm.
Can't wait to find out tho! |
Just received the Parcifal Ovations yesterday. First of all I was VERY impressed with the heavy duty shipping cases they came with. So well padded and heavy duty they almost seemed UPS proof. And the fact that Verity kept the shipping weight to just shy of the 150 limit for UPS parcels kept the shipping prices down to $165 each for each 149lb speaker instead of over $900 for both if they exceeded 150 lbs. Obviously this makes them very Audiogon friendly speakers and is a huge bonus should you ever decide to sell them anywhere but locally.
The speakers themselves are also cleverly designed in 2 pieces so they're very easy to setup, maneuver etc. They're also unobtrusive, wife friendly yet still have a distinctly high end look if slightly understated. The high finish piano black looks more elegant than I thought. I'm a natural wood kind of guy usually, but this is what was available on Audiogon so I figured I could live with them. Truth is, again they're quite elegant looking and I'm more than pleased with the way they look.
Icing on the cake was the seller Skinzy took meticulous care of them and it's very difficult to tell they're not brand new. Thanks Scott!
Overall out of the travel cases I have nothing but admiration for the the forethought, engineering, ingenuity and workmanship that went into these speakers. |
How did I choose the verity's? Basically by violating every audio buying rule I've ever lived by.
Basically only buy after extensive auditioning including in my own house with my own electronics and recordings.
Instead I haven't even seen them in person yet and only heard them on YouTube (although excellently recorded and sounded fantastic). Crazy crazy crazy.
Like most people here I couldn't begin to count the times I've auditioned raved about equipment and thought it was junk.
There's a precedent though - I went to a CEDIA show once and bought a complete home theater system including speakers from Cary Audio. Never heard a note but had faith in the brand (and a nice discount). The sound was sublime from day one and one of the best buys I've ever made.
Since I live in the Metro Baltimore and D.C. Area we have more high end stores than most. I auditioned Sonus Faber, Dynaudio, B&W, Vienna Acoustics, Totem, Golden Ear, Audionote, Proac etc.
I didn't find any of them terribly thrilling for under $10k. The few that sounded well rounded in attributes were too aggressive/fatiguing sounding (as seems to be the fashion these days). This was one reason I started this thread.
You all led me to the Veritys which seemed to have all the attributes I was looking for in spades. There were lots of well detailed reviews that were almost unanimous in describing the kind of sound I was looking for and in agreement with what you all were saying here.
Then desperate for anything I listened to them on YouTube with headphones in a very well recorded video. The sound was stunning and very much in line with the consensus.
Finally I called Verity to find out what I could from the sales guy and ended up speaking with one of the founders who even had the same last name. Yes the stars were lining up on this one.
Of course the Veritys are much more expensive than the speakers I was auditioning so I'd expect them to be better. Fortunately there was a used pair on Agone that was at the top end of my budget.
So I pulled the trigger - but somehow I'm fully expecting this to be a satisfying blind buy like the Cary gear. We'll soon see. |
bjesian - thanks for sharing you're speaker progression. It's very encouraging obviously and makes me all the more antsy to have these baby's show up at the door. Not sure on delivery yet but it should be sometime next week.
Despite all the money and nice gear I've gone through in the past I don't consider myself an audiophile. I don't care about hearing peoples toupees move while they're playing the trumpet or even all that much about perfect sound staging etc.
As a former musician I just look for instruments to sound the way they sound. In this ridiculous industry that alone is seriously compromised until you've shelled out big dollars - and I know it doesn't have to be that way.
All this is to say that if the Parcifal O's sound half as good as they're supposed to - it should be the end of the line for me. Even the Cary speakers had me contented. Now if we can just do something about the power surges around here...
BTW why do you recommend towels instead of spikes? |
Bjesian, I haven't received them yet but are expecting them tomorrow (Tuesday) sometime. I'll definitely report back once I've had some time with them. |
How do they sound? Since my equipment is in transition right now, the electronics I'm using are clearly not up to speakers of this class. But there were some tentative generalities I've been able to gather even at this stage.
First of all I'm using a Cary Cinema 5 250 WPC solid state amplifier. Lots of people sneer at these for 2 channel use because of their home theater origins but I actually think they're quite good. But things go a bit downhill from there. I have a Cary SLP 98L that's brand new that I haven't tried yet since it hasn't even begun breaking.
Instead I'm using a Cary Cinema 11 preamp/processor which is fantastic for home theater but nowhere close to high end for 2 channel audio. The only DAC I have in my system is the OPPO HA-1 headphone amp. Not bad for the price but these baby's deserve better. I'm looking to add the Chord Hugo in the near future. On top of that I'm using XLR cable between the amp and preamp that also hasn't burned in yet.
So though I'm withholding judgement on the ultimate character and even sound of the speakers until the final equipment is present, burned in etc - there are some things that jump out even after listening for a few hours.
First, everything they say about an amazingly articulate bass is true. After living with B&W's and many other speakers that I thought could get the bass right, these are wonderful. Articulate bass used to mean "lean" to me - but not so with these.
Dynamic-ness - These are extremely dynamic speakers which I'll admit I wasn't expecting. Not as in aggressiveness, but in terms of extracting the ebb and flow of emotion and uniqueness of each performance. Removing prettiness and flatness in favor of a very lifelike dimensional sound.
Listening to Jacobs recording of "Marriage of Figaro" which I'm maybe overly familiar with felt more like the full chaotic experience of being at the opera. One vocalist was now clearly over to the side singing with less volume reflecting her distance and and acting activities than the key character who breaks in with a very rich and emotional front and center Aria. I never heard that before.
Coherence - since these speakers are actually two joined together "modules" of a monitor speaker and bass cabinet, you might expect to hear the two distinctly. Instead it's a very coherent sound top to bottom which is one of the keys to realism instead of hifi sounding for me.
Detail - no question these speakers love detail and knows what to do with them.
Soundstaging - another strength of these speakers surpassing anything I've had heard in the past. The stage isn't in your face - you're clearly a few rows back in the audience.
Any negative surprises? Not sure. Given the comments I've heard on the Parcifals, I was expecting a warm lush sound. Not so far. In fact in my admittedly subpar system they tend to the more revealing than lush. Thankfully it's not fatiguing or strident, but lets just say more treble energy than I was expecting. As someone always willing to trade detail for lushness, this is to be expected as I move up the food chain.
And I have a feeling a fully burned in Cary SLP98 tube preamp will be the perfect antidote (not to mention the Chord Hugo DAC). So the tonal character is something I shouldn't even mention at this point - but in the spirit of holding nothing back..
Overall the sound is alive, coherent and engaging. Needless to say I haven't heard anything in the under $10K new price range (which is all i auditioned) that could come anywhere close. I'll report back once I get my more permanent electronics in place.
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Wow - just replaced the XLR with Purist Audio Musaues's RCA's. Major tonal difference. Tonal balance is now perfect with high's still as detailed but beautiful sounding with much more authority and control overall. Mids are even better.
Even with the existing equipment - I can already tell these are the type of permanent fixture speakers that over time you upgrade just by feeding better and better electronics.
Not just classical, even electronic music sounds great. Listening to Shpongles new "Museum of Consciousness" album and Infected Mushroom's "Friends on Mushrooms". Wonderful! |
I know I'm wearing out my welcome but here's another big update. I became increasingly dissatisfied with the sound as things burned in rather than more as I'd expect. I suspected the speaker wire itself might have been damaged in the power surge.
After replacing my revered Purist Audio wire with cheaper Audioquest 33's there was no doubt about it. The PA's were significantly damaged.
The sound now was as close to live as I've ever heard in an audio system. That feeling that the vocalist was in the room with you even surpassed high end Maggies for me. Such coherence, lack of veil, soundstage, detail.
Listening to Dianne Krall actually felt like being 5 rows back in a jazz club. Miles Davis "Man with a Horn" ditto. I know this is beyond cliche for half the high end audio reviews ever printed - but I've never heard a speaker that achieved this to this extent.
If the goal is the sound of live music - the Parsifals are for you. In fact I'm seriously questioning the need to upgrade my existing equipment after hearing them with functioning speaker wire (even if cheap and not yet burned in).
The only two nit picks I have are:
1) To get absolutely genuinely live sound, the volume has to be appropriately loud. It's not terribly loud, but louder than say reading background music. Since I live in a townhouse this isn't always practical - especially night and mornings.
2) These definitely have a sweetspot. The sweetspot if fairly big (entire sofa) but stand up or to the side and things flatten out. Oddly the volume is higher in the sweetspot so turning up the volume helps with off axis listening.
Since I'm used to the home theater Cary Audio speakers which excelled at off axis listening, this takes some getting used to. But I'm pretty sure to get the kind of precision and realism the Parcifals are capable of a sweet spot would be mandatory.
The good news is that by taking out the faulty speaker wire - I'm understanding what the raves (and high sticker price) are all about. These are true reference speakers. |
Hmm, I always thought she did a good with rhythm on piano (even though her crooning does get draggy at times).
Oh well the Parcifals didn't turn Little Richard into Keith Jarrett either.. Maybe I need a better amp. |
Yes I have the woofers firing backwards as recommended by Verity for soundstage depth, etc. They actually recommended between 1 1/2 - 3 feet. Since I live in a town home I figured I'd start at 3 feet to keep peace with the neighbors.
The sweet spot for a full, rich, well defined bass in this room actually turned out to be closer to 2 feet. 2 feet it is - see if I answer the door!
The difficulties I had with getting the bass right actually turned out to be the fault of my speaker wire that was also apparently damaged by the lightning strike. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!! I put in some far less expensive AQ Rocket 33's to make sure - and sure enough, problems solved.
My Purist Audio cables which always excelled at bass and depth were so damaged I was starting to doubt the bass cabinet was working.
This might explain why I returned some Magnepan 1.7's and Kef LS-50's wondering how anyone could possibly pay more than $100 for them. Whoops - my bad. |
Bjesien - have you experimented with placement? If you want to love the bass put them as close as you can to the back wall just before they get boomy.
They take some getting used to because if there's no bass in the recording you won't hear a scintilla of it in your system. Once it appears in the recording it's stunning.
These are very fine speakers and as such VERY sensitive. The differences in everything from interconnects to speaker wire to DACS is magnified 10 fold from my previous also quite good (but not in the same league) Cary Silver Oak III's.
I'd call Verity and tell them what you're not satisfied with, what your other equipment is etc. Even though I bought used they were VERY patient and helpful getting placement right etc.
Also try calling the Cable Company. They were very familiar with the Parcifals and could even tell me which cables have been preferred by Parcifal owners in the past. Ironically one of them was the very speaker wire I already owned but was fried in the lightening strike.
They'll send various cables already burned in for you to audition and you only pay a deposit of 5%. I'm also doing this now - great program!
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I'm thinking the Museaus cables in the Parcifals probably ARE too dark. I've never been a big fan of AQ but the AQ Rocket 33's I'm temporarily using seem to be a good match. The treble is bit lacking in refinement but otherwise they're quite good. Probably going further up the AQ line could help.
I'm receiving acoustic Zen, Cardas and Wyre World cables from Cable Company today. I'll try the Nordost Audience-24 and higher end AQ's next. |
JMC - I'll see if Cable Co carries the stealth. What model were these?
BJesien - I'll keep the Stadium III's in mind after we leave the townhouse next year. They're already too penetrating as it is for our current setup. It's a luxury townhouse with supposedly very solid walls but I still think I'm pushing my luck. |
Scott - thanks but I'd be worried about what happens when your Alexia's finally break in. The bliss from speakers that lofty seems like they could cause irreversible astral transmutation...lol
I finally added the Cary SLP98 tube preamp to the system and I'm feeling a bit untethered myself listening to the Vivaldi Cello Concerto! Wow absolutely gorgeous! The Parcifals are really chameleons depending on what you feed them.
Enjoy your Wilsons and it was a pleasure transacting with you. Now if we could just figure out how to leave each other feedback.. |
LOL. Ok here's the scoop. After having them a couple weeks the bass really opened up (normally a good thing). Except we live in a townhouse and hitting the magical volume level makes me feel uneasy about bothering our very nice neighbors.
Also there's more cable and electronics purchases ahead to optimize them. My previous speakers were a bit bright so all my cabling was on the dark side. Purist Museaus speaker and IC's. Plus the addition of the Cary tube preamp also darkened things a bit - but overall I LOVE it's sound. Should've gotten into tubes years ago. Even my DAC is a bit darker sounding and needs replacing.
If I just play classical or acoustic I can get by with a decent volume. But put on rock or electronic and the room starts to shake. Also normally a good thing but not the best in our situation.
I was torn between keeping the Parcifals and the added expense of a system makeover while not being able to play them at reference levels and going with smaller, less dynamic speakers more apropos for the smaller room and shared walls.
OTOH after getting heat from my wife about spending the money, she's fighting me now over selling them. She loves the look (which has never been the case with any of my speakers ever) and sound of them. Even my teen sons love how cool and modern they look - and as musicians love the sound as well (especially the bass).
Plus for the stuff I listen to the most it does sound quite addictive at moderate sound levels even with the overly dark supporting equipment. But overall it would probably be easier just to get better matched speakers for the room size and not have to change out all the gear. It's not hard getting smaller brighter speakers. Thinking maybe some Dynaudio monitors.
But I do go back and forth. Even with our elaborate home theater room I seem to be spending all my time listening to music with the Veritys in the house. Being sensible can be painful and conflicting sometimes. |
Funny side note. In a neighbors be damned session I was playing "the Specials" enjoying that Ska percussion the Parcifals did a great job with. My wife came downstairs and we started dancing probably for 20 minutes or so. A while later my kids came home and THEY were dancing through several songs.
This was really shocking for my 19 year old tragically hip twin sons but the Veritys (and the specials) can do that to you. |
The problem is the room they're in. To get them far enough from the front wall one of the speakers would have the bass module firing right into the side of a love seat if the woofers were facing forward. This is one reason I thought the rear firing bass module would be a good solution. .
The other solution would be monitors and a sub obviously. Or I could try moving the speakers much closer together and turning the bass forward - but both of those things would limit depth and soundstage as per Verity.
One last option is moving them to the home theater room since they were designed by the builder with extra sound shielding. All the HT speakers are in wall etc. but it's a blacked out room with theater seating no windows etc. not where I want to kick back and listen to music.
I've always lived in large single family homes so these are all constraints I'm tying to adjust to.
Interesting about the silver cables. Which ones are you using? |
Ok I tried them with bass firing forward. As Verity said most of that amazing bass depth and spaciousness has gone. But it IS more neighbor friendly and doesn't sound bad. I'll see if it grows on me. |
After playing them for awhile in the forward woofer config they're really sounding good. Not rattling the walls with 3d deep liquid bass but excellent bass anyway and probably even more coherent and correct sounding (at least in my listening space).
Plus the speakers look more impressive like this, can be closer to the walls, and even sound better with my darker cables.
Knowing they were recommended to face backwards it didn't seem possible that the same woofers with the same output could also sound correct with the very different job of playing into the room.
Actually with the woofers facing in either direction the bass sounds better than any speaker I've ever owned including Cary Silver Oak 3s, B&W 804s and others. The design and engineering that went into these Veritys is truly impressive. No longer for sale. |
My re-decision to sell was based on economics. The insurance company didn't pay as much on the Parsifals as they lead me to believe, and on top of that I realize I'll have to change my amp, speaker cables and possibly interconnects. I'll also be partially or completely out of pocket on them as well.
I was getting some high level frequency that was a bit fatiguing and that was traced surprisingly to my Cary Cinema 5 amp. (Not surprisingly actually considering it had been dropped, badly damaged and fixed and then subject to a power surge).
Someone came by the house with some $750 25 watt amp made in Hong Kong and my jaw hit the ground after how much better the Parsifals sounded. No more high freq fatigue and the Parsifals sounded stunning. The guy also brought some speakers he wanted to sell but after hearing the Parsifals said he's never had the experience of being in the room with the performers they way he did with the Parcifals. Didn't even bother connecting his speakers.
(And again this was from his 25 watt amp, not my Cary 200watt solid state).
But after getting shorted on my insurance payout for the Parsifals and now having to also buy an amp, DAC, speaker and interconnect cables (that were fried too) it makes sense to aim for a more humble system where I can put out considerably less cash on all fronts.
I've made the mistake in the past of wasting good speakers on average electronics. But it's with very mixed feelings after hearing how amazing the Parsifals sound with just incremental improvements in equipment. I can only imagine what they must sound like with really serious electronics behind them. |
KeithTexas - That's a good analysis of my situation. Also the fact that we're living temporarily in a town home instead of the large SF homes we've always had has a lot to do with it.
But more than anything the prospect of having to start from scratch building an optimal system with synergistic amps, preamps, speakers, interconnects, source, DACs, etc. was just way more than I have time to take on. Especially now that dealers are far and few between, and ones that let you audition gear in your home like in the old days have almost ceased to exist.
As Bjesion said I decided to figure out the electronics and DRASTICALLY simplify the system and process. Either getting active speakers and a DAC or all in one electronics.
I went with the Wadia Intuition which combines DAC, preamp and 190W amp. Sounds amazing, weights 17 lbs and I can carry it under my arm to show rooms to audition speakers. My entire big rig reference electronics gear fitting under my arm? Yes - this is EXACTLY what I was after.
Now the only system matching is between the Wadia and speakers. A much simpler, more rewarding and enjoyable process for sure. |
I know this is off topic, but there's a Nuforce Nuprime hitting the market which is similar in functionality - and early reports say it sounds great. Instead of $7500 like the Wadia it's coming in at $2300. I doubt the sound is reference quality like the W Intuition, but given it's from Nuforce it could be expected to way out perform it's price. |
