The Yamaha is pretty in photos but I've never heard one. In fact, I've only seen them in brochures not in person.
Where did you find one? Can you still get belts for it? I'm pretty sure that model is belt drive.
It is belt drive but belts are easy to find. The 1000 is basically an upgraded PF-800. It is a suspended design.
I bought the PF-1000 on eBay for $560. It is beautiful!
While I know audio is about the sound, but I have never liked the way the Systemdek looked in my system, and the PF-1000 will look great with my amp / preamp metal and my AR-9's wood.
Any suggestions on cable change out or cartridges?
I have the Yamaha Pf-1000, it has very nice midrange and tone, but mine is short of bass. I may damaged my tonearm when I moving around from NJ to west.
I am a big fan of Grado and I thought the Blue (at $80 a few years ago) sounded terrific with my PF-800, which is a very similar deck to the 1000 and has what looks like the same arm. I'm using a Sonata on my Systemdek IIX right now and wonder if that might be a great match on yours.
Mig: I placed my PF-800 on a barely-inflated 16" (bike tire) tube, which brought the bass back in a big way! I think the suspension on mine may have been a little old and creaky and didn't give the intended isolation.
So... how does the PF-1000 compare to the Systemdek?
I feel you on the looks. I wish the IIX had a light of some kind...something a little electronic looking, maybe?
But I'm really curious about the sound. When I bought the Systemdek from a fellow Audiogoner, he described it as "Similar to the Yamaha PF800"... It's been years since I've owned the PF800, but so far I haven't found it be too similar.
The PF-1000 and the IIX are different creatures: tonearms, cables, cartridges... hard to compare.
I have a DL103 on the Systemdek IIX with Ortofon copper cables (headshell and 5-pin RCA). The headshell cables really made the IIX quite (got ride of the hum).
I got a Accuphase AC2 cartridge on the PF-1000. Table has some hum. I am waiting to change out the power cord and RCA's (to Synergistic Research Tricon).
I don't care for the DL103 much... as the AC-2 sounds / stages right to me, and puts the DL103 to shame. I have been to lazy to swap the cartridges between tables. I got them tuned in and don't want to move them around. But I would say I would probably love the sound of the AC-2 on the IIX and not tell much difference in an A/B test... just the IIX does not have the auto-lifts and looks of the PF-1000... looks like I am going to spend money on the PF-1000.
Yamaha PF-1000 is dead quite when my Canary Amp is off, which is next to it... guess I found the problem.
I am still experimenting with the PF-1000. But wanted to comment that the PF-1000 suspension is far superior to the Systemdek. The Systemdek will move / bounce as I walk across the room towards it. Not only does the PF-1000 not bounce, but does not move. I can tap the furniture that the PF-1000 is on pretty hard, and there is no movement or sound pickup from the rap. Nice !
I think you made the best choice. My comments were going to focus on suspension characteristics between the two...but I did not know your setup.
Finished testing with cables and cartridges on the Systemdek. (The Systemdek was easier to use as a "compare" platform... with goal of deciding which components to upgrade PF-1000 with.) I recorded these to my Yamaha CDR-HD1500 harddrive, allowing quick, effortless A/B comparisons.
The cartridges on the Systemdek:
I tried the Monster Cable Alpha 2 (sounded the same as the Accuphase AC-2, before I broke the AC-2 (AHHHH !!!!!) and the DL103 on the Systemdek. I would say they are different, rather than one better. The DL103 has nice evenly spread soundstage, while the Alpha 2 reversed some instruments (left / right) and was not as evenly spread (AC-2 the same) but still a nice soundstage (hard to describe better); instrument placement was so definitely different, you would have thought you were listening to two different recordings. The Alpha 2 was more natural (and maybe the DL103 more lively). Of course, each could be "tuned" by changing the cable...
The cables on the Systemdek:
- Ortofon 6NX-TSW1010 6N Copper Cable 5 pin, warm, lush, great piano, but a little dark on voice
- Synergistic Research Tricon on an 1877 Spirit-STBX Interface Box DIN/RCA, very natural... quietest
- misc other RCA interface cables with the 1877, notable was the van den Hul M.C. Integration Hybrid, which was a little sharper than the Tricon, but a little noiser, still very nice. I may actually use it on lesser sounding LP's than the Tricon.
* the standard PF-1000 cable was as natural as the Tricon, sharper, but noiser.
So in the end:
- I left the PF-1000 unchanged, with the Alpha 2. The PF-1000 is a better turntable (suspension, isolation, arm, auto-spot), and has synergy with its stock cable. NOTE: I have added a 700g record clap and a 300g record ring and the PF-1000 can adjust and spin these just fine... minor improvements in sound with each.
- I left the DL103 Tricon setup on the Systemdek for classical, with maybe swapping with the vdH. Still a nice setup.
I have just purchased a PF-800, and have already got the Denon DL103. I know the two TT's are not identical but wonder if you could give further suggestions for upgrades to the Denon PF-800 combo.
The Denon PF-800 combo should sound satisfying. The simple suggestion:
- heavy center clamp / weight (300-700g) ($36 up, cost effective)
- Herbie's Audio Lab's Way Excellent II ($60 up, will increase height)
- upgrade to a Denon DL103R ($300 up...)
- record ring ($350 up... not cost effective, also requires you to remove tonearm post that snaps into stand to hold arm stationary when not in use)
- replace tonearm cable. The PF-1000 has an upgraded cable compared to the PF-800. I would put an 1877 interface box ($150 plus installation) and try cables, but this will add hundreds to total costs.
So, buy a clamp and enjoy. With the hundreds saved, buy LPs.
Thank you for the help, the TT is coming with a heavy clamp so this should be a good starting point. Have you ever played with the effective mass of the tonearm/Denon, do you know what the effective mass is of the PF-1000 arm? Also any idea where to get a second headshell for the PF-800 arm? I found a link that said the ADC headshell would perhaps work FROM needledoctor
Turns out it is different.
I had a Systemdek for years. It sounded nice but was susceptible to vibration. As an experiment I locked it down removing its floating suspension and it sounded much better. I changed the motor and it got better, I dampened the plinth underneath, changed the arm, changed rubber feet for spikes and it now was very good.
It was also no longer what the original concept was.
I eventually tired of it's home made look from the tweaks and went to a more modern table.
The best info I have is from
which says it is a medium mass tonearm with 10mg friction (verse say 20mg for Systemdek Profile arm).
I am not sure how you would add mass. I had a Discwasher DiscTracker on the AC-2, adding +0.6g VTF and forcing counterweight halfway off to balance, but not much difference in sound.
The headshells are hard to find. One went on eBay for $5.00 not long ago (cannot believe I missed that). I finally spent 79 Euro to get one:
has grounded shield that I have not seen in brochures or manuals (which are available at Vinyl Engine). If you find a better source, please let me know.
Headshells: Most Yamaha P-* turntable headshells would fit (P-200, P-300, P-700). You can buy a used turntable plus ship for $40-60 for the headshell.
Thank you for all the help.
I will let you know if I stumble on a good source for the headshells .