Would appreciate a group consensus on Agon purchased amps
I purchased and recieved a pair of Bel Canto Amps form a fellow Agonner. Amps were well packaged - I paid extra for shipping with Fed Ex as the seller wanted to use UPS. I was informed prior to the sale that he did not have original boxes, and he did package them very well - no issues there.
The question I have is would any of you be bothered if you bought a pair of amps form someone on this forum and they shipped both of them without any power cables?
I rang him and inquired about the missing cables and he informed me that he did not use stock cables for any of his equipment - and the next sentance suggested that I go on Amazon and purchase "$3 dollar cables" for them. (his words).
Also, I sent an email to Bel Canto support inquiring about replacement cables for the amps and after one week have not gotten a response from them. I also find this unusual, but it has nothing to do with the seller.
For me this is a matter of principle, and I feel like I should send them back - I would rather pay more and go through a dealer next time just so I can have some level of client care.
Some equipment manufacturers no longer provide power cords, don't know if Bel Canto is one of them. I also don't regard lack of power cords in this particular case as a deal breaker, we're talking about pennies on the dollar here.
The fact seller didn't have original boxes signals likely loss of stock power cords. I always keep original boxes, stock power cords remain with box as I exclusively use aftermarket pc's.
It would be different if the amps were initially shipped from the manufacturer with a special cable made specifically for those amps and they were essentially a packaged deal, meant to work best together.
But missing the throw-away cables most manufactures toss in with their gear? I personally wouldn’t care. But then I don’t use stock cables.
Sending the amps back for missing PC’s seems a bit…oh, what’s the word…
While I agree it seems petty on the surface, I spend most of my time in the UK and got these for a system to use while I am in the US. I do not have extra cables laying about and thus it made them unusable for my application. Also, I think there is a reasonable expectation that a power cable come with the purchase any electronics device, as otherwise it renders it inoperable. Therefore I disagree that anyone should have to ask specifically - (You mean you expected tires to come with that car you just bought?)
I did order cables, but that added an additional week to my time frame. So, not the end of the world, but something I would not have done myself to another Agonner. If I sent something without a cable I would have mentioned it as it would have arrived unusable. I also wouldn't have been blatently flippant with my response.
I think an included cheapo stock cable that you can get for a few bucks on Amazon is a 'nice-to-have' in case you don't have any extra power cables around and you want to make sure the device works, but it's not something I would get bent out of shape about. I always replace those things ASAP anyway...
I don't think it's a hanging offense, but the seller should have offered to pay for those $3 cables and apologized for the oversight rather than being so glib. Almost no one uses stock cables with this level of gear, but you were not wrong to expect them to be included.
wwhat sort of due diligence did you do prior to committing to the sale? IOW. Did you confirm that the sale included the power cords?
Not intending to give you a hard time but have noticed in some ads the seller will state that the original power cords are not available. Other ads it will be noted that the box, the manual, the packing accessories are included.
I imagine your answer and post will be useful for future buyers when obtaining clarification on what is included in the sale.
I’ve read a lot of ads stating no pc included. Usually followed by,I can include some basic pc’s if needed. Were the amps pictured with cables? If not,you probably should have asked about them. I know that’s a bummer. When I started this journey,I didn’t have any PC’s. That was one of the first thing’s I asked about. This is how we live and learn
Use any good quality power cord and they will sound fine. The stock BC cords are not esoteric but work fine. Those are what I use. Assuming these are Class D amps ie very efficient and do not draw a lot of current except at power up if like mine.
I have bought amps that came without cables, and anyway, if Bel Canto did provide them, they would most likely be the same type that the seller said is available for 3 bucks on Amazon. Let it go and buy a couple of decent power cords.
At heart, the OP has asked a simple question: are power cords assumed in the purchase of used equipment? For the most part, the responses here don't address this question. After all, the vast majority of electronics DO include a power cord as part of the original sale. With that in mind, wouldn't it make sense for a seller to indicate any change from the original, new product?
I agree that it's not worth getting worked up over a missing power cable, and I can't imagine sending back a used amp over it. But I'm interested in the question:
Is it reasonable to assume that a used piece of equipment will include a power cord?
(I get it that some people would consider this as part of their research, etc. But that's not the question here.)
You should be able to buy a simple computer power cable at any electronics or big box store. Or ask a friend as most of us that have any computer history have boxes of them laying around. I have even seen them at CVS/Walgreens drug stores. Also any hardware store like Lowes or Home Depot
Understandable that your frustrated with the idea of assumed policy…but this is probably not a big one? Especially with even decently built cords that can be found new for around $50-$60. Those Bell Cantos will absolutely “sing” with decent low-midFi cords. Certainly sound better than the computer cords. And then you could try more elite cords from there. I’ve got stock cords lying around. But would still opt for better ones if I had amps like those!
just the same, it is better to receive them in case you might not have any extras. That at least would guarantee a matched cable starting point.
What type of cable do you think you would have received? 16 or 14 gauge? Ebay about $10 each for six-foot lengths!
If you are buying used equipment and you don't ask specific questions like do you have original box, do they come with a manual, power cords, original owner, etc., then it is not on the seller but on the buyer.
I guess maybe you expected them to come with top of the line Transparent cables?
I would only expect factory cables as per original equipment. I wasn't trying to be a knobhead. It must be a cultural issue. In the UK everyone is of the opinion that electronics should come with the original cables. In the US it seems vague. It truly didn't occur to me that I needed to ask in the first place. Now I know.
Thank you everyone for taking the time to read and respond. I appreciate it.
Up until today I could only test them to see if they powered on (I was using the cable from my pre amp -so couldn't actually run them).
I did get hospital grade cables as I have seen on a few websites - not really good imo SQ-wise- another lesson learned. I will see what they sound like in a few days after the amps 'settle' for a bit.
Also, I am not sure where the hostility towards factory power cables comes from. I have Krell gear and I have been using the factory PC's and they are lovely.
I would consider it useful if the seller made it clear in their ad that power cables were not included.
Start with a W Audio cables on Amazon that you can get for about $50 and then figure out what you want from there if you deem more necessary. Just about any base power cord from an aftermarket audiophile source should match the factory power cord.
Some better gear manufacturers have stopped supplying them simply because they know that nearly all of the end users are going to purchase aftermarket power cords. The seller though shouldn't have assumed that you knew they weren't included, but it was probably an innocent omission.
IMHO, If the amps originally came with power cords, unless the seller specifically said the power cords were not included in the sale, as the buyer I would expect them to be included with the purchase.
I'm with you @gotolondon2, if anything that came with the amps originally, especially something that is required for them to work, is not being included in the sale; it should be disclosed in the ad. Who wants to buy an amp or amps, wait for them to arrive, and then find out you can't use them.
It's not a good sign for Audiogon if this kind of stuff is considered OK. It won't be long before gear starts being sold without the volume knob and that not being disclosed or maybe without fuses. I don't think it's right.
It’s annoying. One shells out a pile of cash for an item, or items, that are unable to be powered up right out of the “box.” Root cause being the buyer assuming the electronic item would include a means of powering it on. Now the buyer has to scramble to find a cable or cables to test said units. Moving forward, the buyer is now jaded. Every purchase made after this may require a deposition ensuring the seller is straightforward and honest. Fun times.
We all assume the equipment we buy will have power cords unless explicitly stated otherwise. The seller created a bad buying experience and I understand the buyer’s indignation, but returning the amps would be throwing the baby out with the bath water.
I get where you are coming from. This is pretty common among the audiophile community. I keep all of the original stuff that came with the stuff I buy. If it was important to you it should have been a question for the seller. That being said I would download the manuals and read what the amp came with. Also, If I was the seller I would have comped you for the cables some how. To start with what to do is ask the seller for them which you did. If you want these amps do not go any further with returning or filing a claim. What I would do is call a Bel Canto dealer and see if they have the original pc in stock. You would be surprised how many black 14 ga cables they have in stock or they throw away. I know this is not ideal, but let it go. If you don’t then you probably just wanted to return the amps regardless of the PC. Again you are talking to someone who loves to keep all original stuff with a purchased product but in the end you made a communication mistake and the seller assumed something. Please let it go for 15 pounds. It is not worth the stress and time you are wasting on this.
Cables and Power supplies are whole separate components to audiophiles. They can fetch thousands of dollars. Just because a power cord comes with electrical “appliances “ doesn’t mean they should come standard on an Audiophile site. We aren’t buying and reselling toasters here. Should the buyer expect a pair of speakers as well? After all you can’t listen to an amp without having a transducer, now can you?
That's up for you to decide, but you're making more of it than I would, that's for sure.
It should have been mentioned, but you can get some stock power cords similar to what would have been provided with a new set of most amps for a few dollars. If it's that big of a deal, ask for a partial refund to cover the cost of the power cords. If you think they need "better" power cords, then you wouldn't have used the stock power cords anyway and it shouldn't matter that they weren't included.
I had same experience but with my preamp purchase, however the seller offered me desktop power cable new… honestly, I didn’t think a minute to refuse… anyway I newer use stock cables so why to bother, a specially if I already have about ten of different stock cables in my basement storage.. I don’t need another one.
With all that is available today in power cords, they are like a separate component. I know if I had an amp I’d at least send a stock or similar power cord, not a $3k shunyata sigma. Maybe the best way to answer this is at least mention that a power cord is not party of the deal. I have bought components where a power cord was not included. Quite frankly I didn’t care because I had my preferred power cord. Maybe we’re making too much out of nothing here.
I think most audiophiles would be upset if an amplifier didn’t come with a remote and the seller didn’t disclose it.
If I were the seller I would have included a stock power cord and if that was overlooked I would offer to have some inexpensive ones delivered via Amazon at my expense.
If I were the buying I would be mildly annoyed if I didn’t have an extra power cord laying around as it seems like a very basic thing to include with a sale. The joy of waiting for a new amplifier to be delivered only to discover that it’s a brick for another day or two...
It’s an unnecessary hill that’s also not worth dying on.
I believe a power cord should absolutely be included if the unit is listed as working unless the seller specifically states that it's not. The power cord is necessary to make it work. This is not about dollars or culture, it's about honest advertising.
That said, you were right not to send the amp back over it. It would not be inappropriate to mention it in your feedback, though.
If you’re in high-end and you’re worried about nickel and dime stock power cables, probably having some idea that people don’t really use them and you still go ahead and embarrass yourself by btchng about it? Your ’principles’ absolutely deserved to pay return freight in order to teach him a lesson because you didn’t get a couple of junk cables. If you don’t have two of these just hanging around, be a guy and go on Craigslist to solve the problem before you humiliate yourself like you did.
ive bought 4 amps on Agon. 2 came with cords. never even unwrapped them. you paid decent money for a decent amp. buy a decent cord. when i buy amps, i order a Cardas cable the same day.
chill Winston, chill.
I agree with most of the foregoing responses. I don't think that it is a big deal at all to receive equipment without stock cords, although I personally would always include a stock power cord with any equipment (or say I am not, or at least ask the buyer if he cares). But I only use good quality cords on my equipment, so I have plenty of stock cords to throw in when I sell. For me personally, I wouldn't care whether equipment came with a stock power cord because I never use them. And with good equipment, I have noticed a definite audible improvement, especially in the bass response, when I used an Audience Power Chord on my Plinius SA100MK III amp. With my Pass Labs 250.8, one of my upgraded cables immediately went on it. You're spending some good money on equipment. You might as well invest in some good quality power cords.