Worth upgrading from Morrow MA4's?

I'm a long time Morrow fan. While I'm not familiar with your components, I am familiar with the improvement of going from the MA4 to the Grand Reference Elite and it was a big difference. The Morrow's are very good cables but I have found better. I now have a complete loom of Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme cables and in my system they are better in every way. In fact I've sold almost all the Morrow's except the speaker cables which will be gone soon.

I did go from the M3 to the M4 to the M5. I have to admit I noticed improvements all the time but i've decided to stop at the M5. The jump in price gets bigger once you get to the M5. In other words, the laws of diminishing returns kicks in. The M5s are good enough for me. I refuse to pay more than $500 for a pair ICs.

Springbok10,

Where do you people come from? You ask me a question that I answer truthfully and then attack me for it. Its not my fault that you don't have any clue as to what you're doing.

In light of your endless stupidity, I have no choice to but to place you in the same category as Maplenuts. The both of you are a complete waste of food.

"simple. I know better" seems to be an apt credo for you, Zd. Patronizing and self righteous posts ruffle my feathers more than subjective posts. But that's just me. Cheers!

ZD , your posts should have cliff notes . Who said what and where and when ?

See my response on 5/3/15.

Just noted the query about Clear Day ICs. Paul Laudati does sell interconnects and I can recommend them based on owning both his single-ended and balanced (XLR) versions. They do require an extended break in, in my experience, and benefit from time on a cable cooker. Paul's moneyback offer makes it easy to try them.

"05-04-15: Maplegrovemusic
just ignore that zd . He is a tool ."

Maybe. But I'm a useful tool.

"05-04-15: Springbok10
Zd542, there is not always the opportunity to test cables. Stealth Indra were not lent out by the Cable Company nor were they on loan by the manufacturer."

What makes Stealth Indra so good that they're worth buying without a demo? Cable Company is the biggest cable retailer there is. By far. If they can't come up with a workable solution, that may be cause for concern.

"I made another mistake: I bought Purist Dominus interconnects for my Atmasphere MA 2 and MP-1, only to be told by Ralph that he recommends Mogami Neglex (We're talking $5K vs $200)."

We've all made these mistakes. That's how we learn. The upside here is that you probably won't make that mistake again. Looking back, though, you would probably agree that buying a pair of 5k without making sure they are right for you is not a very good idea.

"So I am not crying victimization here -0 you choose your words harshly - I am claiming ignorance, but ignorance that is retrospective. I am trying to help Rrolack making similar very, very expensive blunders! And I am doing that by asking him to try cheaper alternatives first. Is that clearer to you? There is nothing more contentious than "cable costs" and I will stop there.
Springbok10 (Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)"

That's not what you said. You said this.

""I have become a cynic of expensive cables ever since spending a hugely embarrassing amount in 2004 on Stealth super- hyped cables only to trade them for cables one tenth the price a year later with no regrets. I hope you get my point. The cheaper cables like clear day, signal, art audio, Mogami neglex all prove my point."

You're pushing that off as a statement of fact, not advice. And its clear that you're not being unbiased because of the mistakes you made, and not necessarily reality.

"05-04-15: Springbok10
As a post script, Zd542, how do you claim to "know you're making the right choice always" if you cant always test cables?"

Simple. I know better. And the reason for this is that I always test cables before I buy them. No exceptions. If I can't test a cable, the money stays in my pocket. If you did the same, you wouldn't be so upset.

just ignore that zd . He is a tool .

05-04-15: Springbok10
So even more evidence that this is all a crap shoot in most instances, supporting my thesis of trying cheaper first, which was all I was trying to say!

One more reason that would make sense, IMO, is the short lengths of the cables Rrolack requires. As I alluded to earlier in the thread, nearly all of the effects an interconnect cable may have, including those that are technically explainable and quantifiable, as well as most of those that are controversial and/or debatable, are proportional to length.

Paul_Graham, I suspect from your system description that the various MA cables you described using were unbalanced, and I suspect that the OP is and would be using balanced cables. Consistent with the comments by Atmasphere in the thread I linked to (and with my initial post in this thread), I would not extrapolate any conclusions about balanced cable differences from experience with unbalanced cables. Especially if the balanced cables are driven from a low output impedance, as is the case with the OP's DAC.

Regards,
-- Al

Al is correct. A pair of 15 ft was about $100 a pair. My apologies. Furthermore, if Ralph's theory, proven in my case, that if the amp and preamp match perfectly, the cable expense is irrelevant. So even more evidence that this is all a crap shoot in most instances, supporting my thesis of trying cheaper first, which was all I was trying to say!

I went from MA-3 to MA-4 to MA-5's.....each time I noticed a real improvement. I did the trade in/up program.

Actually, the Mogami Neglex cables are much less expensive than $200, as can be seen here, unless unusually long lengths are required. (Note, though, that the indicated prices should be doubled for a stereo pair).

Those cables seem to be the de facto cable of choice in pro audio applications, BTW, which presumably says something about their reliability and build quality. I suspect those were among the reasons for Ralph's recommendation.

Regards,
-- Al

This may be a silly question, but if Atmasphere designs really are impervious to cable quality, why would it be recommended to use a $200 cable?

It seems like we should be using a $2 cable, and spending the other $198 on music, no?

Thanks for your comments, Denis (Springbok10), and for sharing your experience. As a point of information for everyone, Ralph's (Atmasphere's) designs, in contrast to many and probably most others, meet the criteria he stated here for providing complete immunity to interconnect cable differences (assuming the cable isn't defective, of course). His comments in that post BTW, including the proof that he offered for his contentions, strike me as extremely persuasive.

I would assume that is why he recommended Mogami, and is presumably the main reason why Mogami worked just as well in connecting your MP-1 to your MA-2 as the $5K cable.

In addition to the linked post, see his responses to a couple of questions I asked later in that thread.

Regarding the OP's equipment, I'm pretty certain that his ARC preamp will not meet the criteria Ralph stated. The Bricasti DAC might, but without being familiar with its design (especially its internal grounding configuration), I have no way of knowing.

Best regards,
-- Al

As a post script, Zd542, how do you claim to "know you're making the right choice always" if you cant always test cables?
Only buy from The Cable Company? Furthermore, I bought the cables from a friend and am certainly not blaming him nor anyone else. I acknowledge ignorance totally, not blaming anyone. Re-read my post.

Zd542, there is not always the opportunity to test cables. Stealth Indra were not lent out by the Cable Company nor were they on loan by the manufacturer. I made another mistake: I bought Purist Dominus interconnects for my Atmasphere MA 2 and MP-1, only to be told by Ralph that he recommends Mogami Neglex (We're talking $5K vs $200). Guess what ? The Mogamis sounded as good. But I didnt know this before. So I am not crying victimization here -0 you choose your words harshly - I am claiming ignorance, but ignorance that is retrospective. I am trying to help Rrolack making similar very, very expensive blunders! And I am doing that by asking him to try cheaper alternatives first. Is that clearer to you? There is nothing more contentious than "cable costs" and I will stop there.

"I have become a cynic of expensive cables ever since spending a hugely embarrassing amount in 2004 on Stealth super- hyped cables only to trade them for cables one tenth the price a year later with no regrets. I hope you get my point. The cheaper cables like clear day, signal, art audio, Mogami neglex all prove my point.
I am neither a dealer nor have any financial interest in any audio component but read so much hype and garbage about cables that I thought I'd save you some $$$!:) "

I don't see how you can prove something that's subjective. More importantly, though, your post touches on a fairly common problem. And that's looking at situations in audio using only your experiences, and then expecting everyone to see things your way. If you consider every piece of gear that you had access to up until now, it would account for a tiny portion of all the components being produced and sold.

With regards to the very expensive high end cables that didn't work out for you, it looks like you made some mistakes. You're kind of playing the victim here. The reality is, you went out and bought expensive cables without first making sure they will work well in your system. That's really your own fault. You can blame the cables and the gear and the store, and whatever else, but its still your fault. The fix is simple: Don't buy any cables or components until you know that you're making the right choice.

Rrolack - I own Clear Day double shot gun speaker cables as well and think they
are great. But fyi...Paul Laudati/Clear Day does sell ICs...search for Clear Day or
VonWaffen either here on A'gon or on the Audio Asylum Marketplace. There are
some on AA Trader now.

The cheaper cables like clear day, signal, art audio, Mogami neglex all prove my point.

Springbok10, I must admit that the Clear Day Double Shotguns you sold me this week sound great :) If Clear Day made ICs, I'd want to try them.

Almarg, the ICs I'm running are all 1 meter in length, so pretty short.

If you can spring for them, there are some Darwin Ascension Plus B-Stock on sale here. Having them in my system and broken in, I'll go as far as to say I would have paid full price for them and not regretted it in the least (I blow the difference on wine every two weeks).

All the best,
Nonoise

My answer is an emphatic No. I have used Morrow 4s - they are very good but so are others costing half and double. I offer to send you a cable ( on loan) costing half, and if you can have someone change your cables blind, and you can identify significant difference, then you'll have some sort of answer. I have become a cynic of expensive cables ever since spending a hugely embarrassing amount in 2004 on Stealth super- hyped cables only to trade them for cables one tenth the price a year later with no regrets. I hope you get my point. The cheaper cables like clear day, signal, art audio, Mogami neglex all prove my point.
I am neither a dealer nor have any financial interest in any audio component but read so much hype and garbage about cables that I thought I'd save you some $$$!:)

A point to keep in mind regarding analog interconnections (I presume you are not using an MA4 for the digital interconnection), is that the longer the length of the cable the greater the difference the cable is likely to make. Also, higher output impedance of the component which drives a cable will tend to increase sensitivity to cable differences. Your preamp has a considerably higher output impedance than your DAC.

Also, everything else being equal balanced interconnections (which I presume are what you are using) will generally tend to have less sensitivity to cable differences than unbalanced interconnections, especially when driven from a low output impedance.

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al

Rrolack - Doubt anyone can predict with certainty whether MA6s or 7s will provide you with a meaningful improvement (barring the unlikely event someone has your exact gear and listening space and has tried). Pretty sure Morrow has a trade in/trade up program as well as in-home trial. I suggest you email or call and see if these can work together...get a trial on 6s or 7s with option to return if no improvement or credit for trade in of your current MA cable if you keep the 6s/7s. In my experience (MA3 ICs from pre to mono blocks; SP4 from integrated amp to speakers) Morrow is very customer-friendly and will work with you - so definitely worth a call (or email) to them.

Upgrade to Putist Venustas Luminist wonderful musical great dynamics etc

You should be able to hear a difference, but if it was my choice I would switch to a different brand. Call Cable Co. and have them send you some demo's.

While I'm not familiar with your sources, I am familiar with your pre-amplifier, amplifier and speakers.
IF your system is well set up to recreate the recording as it was performed, than without a doubt, your system will perform better with better cables.
I'm a dealer, so I can't recommend what cable I found best (and why I became a dealer for that cable) - but I can state with absolute certainty that your components will sound better with better cables.
Only good wishes, TJF.

I doubt it.....