Woofer pumping possibly due to tube amp when playing vinyl


I am moving this issue  to this forum because of what I discovered this weekend.

I’ve been trying to figure out why I have woofer pumping when I play vinyl, and for the last two weeks I’ve been messing with my vinyl rig trying to figure out what is causing the issue.  The woofer pumping seems to be more prevalent with the vertical up-and-down movements of the tonearm regardless of which turntable is being played. It appears it happens more at the outer edge of the record then the inner grooves.  I assume this is because record is more warped at the outer edges. The woofer pumping happens even in quite passages, so it’s not noise induced vibration affecting the turntable. 

 I have used two different turntables to try to figure this out, one is a pioneer PL 530, and the other is a VPI prime. both with different carts. Also, I have verified that all the carts being used on these turntables work well together with their respective arms.

However, it is not the turntable or cartridges. 

Things I can say for certain, it is not the turntable because I switched turntables with different cartridges to confirm this, and I still get the woofer pumping.  It is not a phono preamp because I’ve switched several phono preamp‘s, solid state and tube, and I still get the woofer pumping. It appears it is the tube amp that may be at cause. It’s the only component left of the chain. 
I have a Audio Research  Classic 60 amp. I got the amp used but it came with a new set of power tubes I don’t recall if I changed the four smaller driver tubes,  I also change the four large capacitors to new capacitors and biased the amp. 
The interesting thing is, with the TT’s I tried, it is the right channel that pumps more than the left channel, regardless of the variety of different cartridges tried, all aligned with AS Smartractor.

To be certain it was limited to vinyl playback, I plugged in a CD player and I do not get the woofer pumping at all. So I have a couple theories (1) the TT is just transferring subsonic frequencies from the records, ALL records I play do this.  Please remember, this is from the two different turntables being used, one a VPI prime belt driven, and the other a pioneer PL 510 Direct DrIve,  or (2) there’s some weird thing going on at the amp that I cannot explain. 
My question is, if there is something going on with the amp could it be a tube issue, or capacitor issue, or a biasing issue.  If so what is the most likely culprit.  Or I guess something else altogether. 
In the end I’m rather tired of chasing this ghost, and I would rather not use a subsonic filter if possible. If I do have to use a subsonic filter I want the most transparent one if such a thing exists. I’ve heard mixed results about the KAB unit. 
last_lemming
Not sure if this is your issue but In 2010 I have a very significant woofer pumping issue with vinyl

That’s when I had a triplanar arm and ZYX Universe cartridge

We looked at isolation, the room, Speaker porting, suspension, etc etc like you are doing.

Like your situation it was worse on the outside portion of the record and exasperated on records with subtle warps

a lot of great insight from those posting here and our local guru here in New Orleans Richard Gray and Thom Mackris of Galibier converged on a solution. Major thanks to both.

Finally resolved what was wrong


the feather test - moving a feather lightly against the cartridge on the outer side parallel to the record should move the head shell and progress the record forward

if the cartridge doesn’t respond to the feather’s light touch and move inward then The tonearm bearing isn’t moving properly

The tonearm bearing wasn’t moving suficiently so the cantilever was moving up and down some instead of the cartridge moving in mass.
It would follow the groove forward but not have enough sensitivity to track things vertically correctly in harmony with the cartridge. That was what was causing all the pumping

It also isn’t kind to your deliccate cantilever suspension.

Most likely the bearing was restricted by dust in the equation.

I had the arm sent back and the bearing replaced by Triplanar and all was well

Since then I move up to a Durand tonearm.


I know you mentioned this was occurring with two turntables but each could be suffering from the same bearing issue to different degrees.

I wouldn’t rule the tonearm bearing out.
Particularly if you hadn’t played them in a while, there were similar dusting habits or if they are located in the same environment.

It is certainly worth a test.


Tom
Tom, 

Thanks for your input, while the pioneer is a traditional gimbal arm the VPI is pivot.  As you probably know there are no bearings per se, to be sure I checked the pivot point and the cup, both are free of debris or burring.  I also have the second pivot point for the VPI and I even disconnected it to be sure, but the pumping happened in both cases with and without the second pivot point to the same degree.
Yes the VPI pivot setup doesn’t involve a bearing - doh!

Watch the cartridges on the record

Is the cartridge moving up and down but most of the movement is in the cantilever? (The cantilever angle should be static)

If that is the case - the suspension on your cartridge has weakened and would result in woofer pumping.

You said you had swapped things in and out.
Is one Cartridge or turntable more prone to woofer pumping?

Both cartridges could easily be having these Suspension issues
I have a VPI Classic 1 with Lyra kleos and Zephyr when Kleos is being retipped and never had my woofers and subs pumping. Always had it set on concrete slabs, but I doubt that would make much difference, also use an outer ring but go without it at times and regardless of warp, I experience no woofer pumping.
Something is obviously wrong with your setup and I hope you figure it out.