Wilson Benesch Torus and Thiel SS2 subwoofers

Hello guys,
thank you for the inputs.

I asked those question, because I have both Thiel SS2 and WB Torus at audition at home. The Thiel is mine and Torus is at a loan. I was almost sure that I will replace Thiel with Trous after reading so much enthusiastic opinions.

I would like to replace my Thiel with sub at the same level of performance, but more room friendly and easier to hide.

Now after audition the Torus I am not sure about those replacement.

From technical stand point Torus is quite original approach to sub design – no doubt on that. But what I heard is a little disappointment. However Torus is a brand new and out of the box, so maybe requires some break-in period, but I am not sure if break-in may change the sonic signature.

Technical parameters comparison is better for Thiel:
Thiel has 1000W RMS amplifier, Torus only 200W,
Thiel is capable of 105 dB output at 20Hz and 112dB output at 30 Hz. Torus does not go over 100 dB.

Thiel sub in comparison with Torus can go audibly lower in bass, but the most important difference is that Thiel subwoofer is capable of output very resolved sound and definitely more punchy bass. Thiel bass is short, deep and punchy. Torus blends notes together. It is harder to follow music rhythm. There is also tonal differences between notes with Thiel. With Torus all notes seems to sound similar in their character.

I really can’t understand why Torus sounds this way, but if it does not improve after few days of working it will be disappointing.

However Thiel also has their own flaws. Their speakers are front firing and sub has four speakers instead of three and sometimes it starts to rattle.
At high volumes there is also rattling sound coming from inside, probably from the board with amp.

In my opinion if Thiel will designe subwoofer with outboard amplifier it would be great improvement.

Also the Thiel has room boundaries compensation circuit, which really works especially when sub is near to walls. With Torus there is no compensation for close to wall placement and it is really audible as the bass is not as clear and linear in room.

Any thoughts?

--> Richard,
rattling could be from not property tighten spikes.
I still thing that such large and resonant cabinets should be positioned on three spikes in triangular configuration.
Could you kindly let me know if you hear any residual noise from the Thiel subwoofer amp when the amp is in idle (no signal feed). I found that my SS2 had level of noise to high to be accepted. During low music passages it was annoying. I had the sub amp replaced with new one construction. Whole line of Thiel subs has new amplifier design. There many changes compared to original design, but noise is significantly lower with new amp.
I am still auditioning Torus and it becomes improve during break-in. Definitely the bass has different character that bass from Thiel sub.

As I mentioned, Thiel developed completely new amplifier for their SS2, SS3 and SS4 subwoofers. New amplifier design is similar to the amplifier used in SS1 subwoofer but with double power output. Probably the new design was necessary because older design in SS2-SS4 subs have had unfixable high residual digital noise which was quite loud and disturbing during listening and at idle. For me such high level of noise in such expensive subwoofer is really a shame for such manufacturer like Thiel. I can’t understand why this obviously necessary improvement took few years since subwoofer line introduction.

I received my SS2 at the end of 2008 with old amplifier and level of noise was not to be accepted. I was ready to return the sub and find something else, but instead I received new amplifier. Their started to supply subs with new amp since beginning of 2009.

With new amplifier the residual noise is significantly lower, however not gone completely.
I am very sensitive on that but now it is non an issue here.

The main differences:

-new amplifier has completely new construction. It is dual mono of SS1 amplifiers.

-new amps is much lighter because instead of big and heavy toroidal transformer in power supply it has switching power supply. The whole sub is much lighter than manual stays and it is not good for the sub, because it is more sensitive for rattling. Thiel claims that new switching power supply allows the sub to work faster witch more punch. I did not compared old and new side by side so can’t confirm.

- new amp does not have handles on the panel and do not have LED display.

- room boundary compensation circuit was preserved but now you do not setting the distances from the wall by pushing the three buttons, but you have three rotary potentiometers. For me it is downgrade, because you do not see on the display precise setting, but Thiel claims that it is upgrade because potentiometers allow continuous regulation instead old one in steps.

- with old design you could switch off green LED on front panel by pushing and holding one of the switches at the back. In new design you can’t do this and green LED still glow during operation. In completely darkened room during movie projection it is disturbing. The only solution is to disconnect wires internally.

- I am not sure if that feature was in old amp, but new one has trigger input allowing to switch on with other components in system.

All changes mentioned above does not matter for me. The only think that matters is lower noise floor. Regardless Thiel subs are fantastic performer, however a bit overpriced.

The other thing worth to mention. Thiel subs were reviewed many times – NO ONE reviewer mentioned about this noise! Are they deaf? Think about it…

I would like to report effects of Thiel SS2 and Torus comparison. After few days Torus improved their performance and now is quite pleasure to listen. I made direct comparison between subs by connecting Thiel with passive crossover to the left channel and Torus amplifier at high level signal to the right main amplifier channel. Using balance I have quick comparison between two subs.

However I am sure that both subwoofers received different signal. Torus was rolled off by their amplifier filter at given frequency, Thiel received signal from passive crossover and the roll off point seemed to be considerably higher than with Torus. Thiel received not only bass signal but also some part of middle frequency signal and this probably caused the impression of more punchy bass.

Torus is indeed great subwoofer. Is has rock solid and dead quiet cabinet, so there in not boxy sound from that. The only feature is missing is Room boundary compensation feature available in Thiel subwoofers. Without this feature Torus positioned near the walls can sound a little boomy, but there are laws of physics. I can agree that it produce bass so different than typical subwoofer that it can be hard with proper interpretation at the beginning.