Wilson Audio Duette 2's vs Tekton Ulf's


Help...I am going crazy reading the Tekton DI forum.  And now there are comments regarding the Ulf.  I have a pair of Wilson Audio Duette 2's.  I have two Triad Silver in wall Subwoofers to complement the bass from the Duette 2's.  My integrated tube amp is Raven Audio Reflection MK2 with 58wpc.  That combination has been absolutely awesome for me in a room that is 30'wide x 40' long.  Yes, I know not the perfect listening room but the music that comes out of my system sounds like a concert hall.  In addition, I have a Lumin A-1 DAC / Music Streamer and a Synology hard drive for music storage.  I love my system.  This is strictly 2- channel as I have a separate dedicated theater room also.  

Originally, for fun I was going to buy the Tekton DI and just compare them to the Duette 2's.  I figured I would compare the two speakers and sell the ones that I did not like as much.  Yes, they are two totally different speakers.  Then, the Ulf's came out and Eric said they blow the doors off of the DI's.  Naturally, I am interested in the Ulf's.  However, in this situation, I would need to sell my Duette 2's before ordering the Ulf's.  Am I crazy?  I am comparing the Duette's that cost $23k vs a Tekton Mini or Ulf at $7.5k to 12k.  

I live in the Phoenix area.  If there are any audiophiles out here that would not mind listening to my current system and telling me what you think I would love to hear your comments.  It is very hard for me to give an objective opinion on my system.  Like I said I love it....but like all of us, if there is a way to improve it we do it.  I just don't know if the Tekton Ulf's are an upgrade over my Wilson's.
willgolf
 If I were you Id get onto other sites that dont have Tekton owners trying to support their purchases.The DIs have been touted as mount Rushmore speakers here but just so so on other sites,"good for the money" speakers,Ive read that a lot .I havent heard Tekton but I did speak with a good buddy on the west coast who auditioned the double impacts at length as well as the new mini DIs..Not refined at all,more of a rock and roll JBL 70s type speaker,the fit and finish along with the drivers and crossovers are basically what one would expect for a 3 grand speaker,his words.If I were you Id take the time and go listen to these speakers your thinking about buying and not go by the hype or over hype from users on this site,and certainly not go by what the guy thats selling them is telling you,Use your own ears and make the call.If they sound great to you,pull the trigger but going on what others tell you is just foolish, IMO...oooh you might want to consider this company is adding ,upgrading,speakers at an alarming rate....and we all know or should know that the speakers we have once upgraded to a new version makes values dump ie. Raidho.

Missioncoonery, with all due respect, your persistent negativity toward Tekton speakers and those who own them has grown tedious in the extreme. There is a very noticeable and annoying air of condescension in your posts toward those  of us (and yes, I am one) who have actually tried the speakers and found them to be excellent, as if we are somehow inexperienced fanboys or have something to gain from our enthusiasm for the performance of these speakers. Or even more strangely, that the Audiogon site has us all under a spell, since there are reports elsewhere that some people--including from good buddies on the west coast--listened to the speakers and found them not quite so satisfying.

I do agree with you that "going on what others tell you is just foolish," a wise observation about audio in general that could be conveyed without couching it in yet another anti-Tekton semi-rant. 

I have owned and enjoyed a range of gear over the years, and feel no need whatsoever to defend, support, or justify any of my purchases. I would recommend that if you are going to deputize yourself as a member of the "Tekton police," that you at least find the time to listen to a pair for yourself. Otherwise, I can scarcely imagine an opinion that has less relevance for someone interested in learning more about the speakers.
Someone that negative about a product unheard is not going to change their mind after listening no matter how good it sounds. I wouldn’t trust anyone sharing an opinion of a product they haven’t heard. Expect a post in a month or two from stating he heard them at a "friends" house and they were just ok or sucked. This poisonous and negative mentality is nothing new in the hobby.

OP do yourself a favor and bring them in for a trial and let your ears decide. IMO there will be as many people that dislike the Tekton sound as those that love it so don’t go selling your excellent speakers quite yet. I’m expecting sooner than later I will have a guest comment negatively on them during a demo although so far everything has been overwhelmingly positive.

Waltersalas and james,
I'm not here to defend missioncoonery. Him and I have had our differences in the past and have more or less called each other out on different occasions specifically about loudspeakers. The current Tekton thread here is, I believe approaching 2000 posts. A lot of us "non-Tekton" owners are quite amazed at the discussion and hype these loudspeakers have been getting here. In spite of what you think, not all of us are "Tekton haters." Many would like to have a lengthy audition, myself included, but don't want to part with several hundred dollars of return shipping to find out. That is, if we don't like them or just feel they are not better than what we already have. I'm sure the majority of potential Tekton customers would rather go to a nice bricks and mortar audio store to have a no cost no obligation audition. As I have said before, many of you (with the exception of Kenny) are just being to defensive of (The New Baby)....
People can't help but knock Tektons for some reason, especially over on avs forum. Some of those guys are scathing. My take is if you haven't heard them why are you even chiming in. Comparing Wilson Duettes with the ULF seems a little strange to me. 2 way small speaker to a enormous monolith. 

Mr_m,
Until today, I don't think I've made a single post that anyone could construe as "defensive" of Tekton. I was intrigued by what I read about them, made a relatively minor investment in shipping charges to audition them, and reported on what I found as clearly and accurately as I could when I got them and had a chance to hear them.

I have been to more than one bricks and mortar store to audition speakers, and without fail, the experience has been unsatisfactory. How do you know what that speaker will sound like in your room with your gear by listening to it in another system in a different room? I have never understood that. Maybe you would get some sense, but in this hobby where small differences are often writ large and so many things are system-dependent, I am skeptical of such auditions.

I am afraid there just is no shortcut or substitute for hearing them in your own system. Even in my own, I very nearly judged them too soon. Thank goodness I waited for an appropriate amount of break-in time.
@ mr_m With the long the list of gear I’ve had over the years it is clear to me I am not a fanboy of any company (maybe ATC a little) The Double Impact was such a stand out product for me I felt compelled to post to this site and share my thoughts with other owners. I don’t think anyone else on Canuck Audio Mart has them. Ordering the Mini Ulfs could end up being a very expensive mistake on my part as the custom finish means I won’t be able to return them. Sometimes a company gets it just right with one product and that might be the Double Impact.

I like good sound and if Tekton makes a bad sounding speaker I will be first in line to bash it. I couldn’t stand the Acoustic Zen Adagio’s I bought unheard and bashed them every chance I got even though they were loved by reviewers and owners.


waltersalas.
I've been in this hobby for almost half a century. I can get a pretty good handle on how a loudspeaker is going to sound in my listening room, even upon first hearing it at an audio salon. I think it's fair to say I have a pretty well trained pair of ears. I'm in full agreement that you have to have an audition before purchase. To do otherwise is just plain foolish. I
have also brought speaker systems home to my listening room. Even the large ones with no more cost to me than my time and a little sweat in lifting. If you have had unsatisfactory listening sessions  in an audio salon, then maybe you should take a different approach in your tactics. I have bought speakers via mail order and was able to audition, in my home, with absolutely no cost to me if I decided to return them. And that includes return shipping costs. I have even driven over six hundred miles to some of these manufacturers to listen to their speakers at their facility. What I have just described to you is the way I would like Tekton to be. I would LOVE to hear Eric's latest creations. There is just no dealer or person who has them around me to go listen. Or at the moment no one I know. If you or anyone else wants to gamble with return shipping charges for an in home audition, then by all means, have at it. I'm am now retired. I am by no means poor, but my disposable income is not without limits. I still find ways to listen to tons of gear with no cost to me.
james. Interesting what you said about Acoustic Zen. I've heard some people swear by them, and some other people swear at them;).......
Mofo....Yes I know it is strange to compare The Duette 2's to ULF.  I know I love the Duette 2's and the sound absolutely fills the room with the power of my Raven Amp.  
I wish I could hear the Ulf's even if it was on You Tube.  I too have listened to hundreds of speakers at audio stores and I even attended the Newport Audio show.  I agree that what sounds great in those settings does not mean it will sound great in your own environment.  I have no desire to order Tektons Ulf's or for that matter the DI and then try to ship 400 lbs. of speakers back.  I would even fly to Utah but Eric has told me his operation is not set up for listening.  I look forward to any and all input from people who can provide me their insight on my dilemma
Not setup for listening,lol...Id p
Pass and be thankful for the wonderfull speakers you have
Willgolf, the Ulfberhts sound amazing. They will easily fill your listening space with great quality sound. If you were near Tampa, I would invite you to come judge for yourself. The rest is up to you. I bought them sight unseen, and would never return them.
Willgolf,

I just saw your thread and I believe I could offer my experience in listening to your wilsons.
I belong to a local audio club and I get to listen and or borrow all kinds of gear.

I have heard the Wilson Audio Duette 2's at a members house in a room sized 20x30x9 ft and powered with a pass labs Xp-10 preamp and a pass labs Xa-30.8,both of these components were previously owned by me and sold to my friend.I have never heard either of the Ulf's but I do own the DI's and I will give you my opinion between the 2.

The wilsons sounded pretty good for a 2 way design beating other 2 way speakers of comparable size that I have heard in the past.But basically there was no comparison to my ears in every sonic aspect that I can think of with the DI's winning in every way.

The Di's to my ears sound much more realistic in,
Image size
Speed
Transparency
Natural Tone Color
Ebb and Flow of the music that is just effortless,meaning the music just flows out of the speakers naturally.
Soundstage that is much wider and deeper with excellent Liquidity,system dependent Offcourse.
Much bigger sweet spot of sound.
And obviously much better bass without using Subs.

I need to have my friend over to my house and listen to my system for himself so he can compare and we will have his opinion in the mix.He travels a lot and the timing hasn't happened yet.
I have described the sound differences to him but he is quite skeptical.

I know you are faced with a tough decision and I wish you the best of luck,

Kenny.
Kenny
Perfect feedback.  That helps.  I would love to have your friends independent view when he can.  Thanks.
Beware, as many have said of, 'A friend of mine said', advice. I would never buy any speaker that I had not auditioned. To me that's the only way to really know. Plus, there's the added benefit of anticipation, audition... foreplay if you will, the beating heart of being an audiophile.

Good luck.
Larry
willgolf,

My friend who owns the Wilson's has been to my house twice and has listened to my system.

He loved the sound and pretty much agreed with my previous assessment of the 2 speakers,now Offcourse we both realize that each set of speakers were heard with different gear and most importantly in different rooms.

I offered to him with his help that we could try my speakers in his system but he declined only because his wife would have nothing to do with such large speakers in her living room.

I can understand that because they are big and I'm lucky my wife is very understanding of my audio obsessions,she likes the sound almost as much as me.😃

Best set of luck to you,
Kenny.
This is an interesting conversation, I find it disturbing that you fan boys are jumping on missionconnory whose comments seem to be one of rationality against all the Tekton hype. If his friend actually heard the speakes and say they sound like JBLs that may be a valid comment and that may be exactly how his freind feels after demoing the speakers.

I have been playing in this industry for over 40 years and there have been tons of companies making claims of building the greatest x y or z and selling that product at a fraction of the price of the majors and sometimes these same companies are also touting revolutionary patented technlogy do you remember the JSE and infinite slope crossover technology? How about Spica?

I recently heard the often touted $500 Elacs they were okay at best not a giant killer, just a good speaker for the money.

One previlent theme in audiophilia land is how many people are not willing to spend the money to invest in the real companies that invest millions of dollars in research and buiild better products these include the KEF Blade and the Paradigm Personas over the magic claims of a tiny company such as Tekton or the Wilsons of this world.

Is this the allure of the underdog, or is it the incredulous nature of industry to promote the small boutique manufacturers over the larger players.

We had the Blades setup a the NY Audio Show in 2013 and they sounded as good at the $107k YG did you hear anyone even talking about this in the magazines? To date only one British reviewer actually came out and said the Blades sound as good as the $60-70k speakers, so even some of the major players that are not the smaller boutique companies such as Wilson, Rockport, YG etc don’t get the same praise.

Eric may be a talented designer but audio is more about good engineering rather than magic and a company such as KEF or Paradigm can invest millions in research how much can Eric invest in R&D compared to the majors?

If his patent is so revolutionary many other engineers would be commenting on it, interesting how mum an entire industry is on this point and perhaps he would be making much more money licensing his patent or selling his company to one of the major companies for several million dollars and just retiring?

When Apple or Android produce radical technology you certainatly hear about it.

All of the fanboys may or may not be correct. The decdiding factor in all of this is the erronous model of factory direct vs dealers.

If the speakers were sold at dealers then the speaker buying public could hear these products and then compare them to the majors and judge for themselves the validity of these products this would validate the brand in a hurry, way more than passionate owners who may or may not know how to setup a good system or be so biased to justify their purchase.

The Tektons are so cheap a price upgrade to accomodate a normal dealer network would still make his speakers bargins just less so then they are now and lets face it if you can afford to spend $3k on a set of speakers you can pay $5k as well.

As per Wilson, the Duettes are lovely and like all WIlson loudspeakers heinsouly overpriced for a company that employs very ordinary drivers that are actually quite inexpensive compared to the cost of their loudspeakers.

Only time will tell if Tekton is building something really special or over hyped, just like the Elacs.

I have not heard the speakers so these comments are from someone who is still standing outside of this argument, Tekton may be currenlty bargins for the sound they produce or not.

Kdude your arguement is also specious a pair of Deuttes will never sound like a larger speaker and even with bass they will still sound smaller and you never mentioned if the Duettes were being used with subs without subs in a large room the speakers are going to sound anemic.

It is impossible to compare the sound of two entirely different systems with different components in two entirely different homes.

Scientific method you change out one set of speaekers for another, compare the same track switch and repeat and note what changes for the better or worse with the same gear, same room same everything.

The concept of a monitor with subs is not the same sound as a larger floorstanding loudspeaker, and if you remember my Wilson comments I am not a WIlson fanboy either, too many Audiophiles fall for their hype as well, I would take a pair of Kef Blades, Paradigm Persons, Dali Epicons, or a set of Legacy Aeris over most of the Wilson products.

Now watch the attacks come at me from the fanboys for daring to raise these points.

Weren’t the Tektons at a recent Audio show with somewhat muted response? If they were at a show and didn’t generate possitive feedback with the reviewers to me that says something interesting. If the speakers were so remarkable don’t you think they would have faired better?

Now I will end the following I am ready to drink the coolaid if I ever get to hear a set of these speakers in my shop where I hang out in, and I can compare them to the sound of the majors brands can I judge for myself.


Troy


Troy,

I've been in this hobby almost as long as you and I understand your very valid points in proper system and speaker comparisons but if you read again what I said in my post there was no reason to move forward with any more evaluation the Waf killed the deal.

Your point about the Tekton patient is spot on,I have read it several times and It's only referring to a general idea and is very vague.

Hopefully you can hear some Tekton speakers sometime and then you would have a true opinion without speculation.

My budget for speakers is 40k but Offcourse I got one heck of a bargain with the DI's and couldn't be happier.Are They the last speaker I ever buy probably not.

I have been told by Mike Kay of audio archon that he will be getting the SE version of the DI's for demo and the SE version is dealer only.

Kenny.
As the starter of this thread, it is interesting to read all of your diverse thoughts.  I have made a decision and I am going to list my Wilson's for sale on Thursday.  I truly love them and they are in perfect condition but my room is massive and I need a full size speaker.  A friend of mine is going to lend me his Legacy Aeris system for a week with my Raven Amp.  If I like them I may go that route.  If not, I will also consider the Mini Ulf's or look for a good pair of used Magico's, or something else.  I would fly to Utah to hear the Ulf's before committing to Tekton.  It is to early for used Paradigm Persona 9H's to be available.  I am not a fan of B&W, mid price range Sonus Fabers, and my spouse would not accept the look of KEF.  The Aeris just might work because the speakers must be placed within 6 inches of the rear wall and with the Wavelet correction system it should help.  $20k is my top end.   I have been told the Aeris will blow away my Wilson's so it will be fun to compare the two.  
As a Legacy dealer we think this is a wise move. If you get a set of Aeris with the standard Wavelaunch processor, then the price of a set of Aeris is around $20k and they have two huge advantages over the Ulberoths.

One they have room correction which will enable you to produce good non boomy bass with that adverse room position.

Two: they are a known and much hearlded product. The Aeris has been receiving rave reviews from many magazines for many years. 

The Aeris combines extremely high quality custom heil AMT with a few other tricky drivers with a diapole midrange system that screams huge soundstage with a lot of air.They have fantastic deep bass and have a smooth midrange, they also have fantatic dynamic range and although are large are a pretty speaker with superb woodwork.

Let us know what you think of the Aeris. We think you will find them a huge improvment over the Duettes.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
willgolf,

I think that is wonderful choice and you have a friend close that you can borrow the Legacy's.Nothing better than trying a speaker and or a component in your own room.

The Aeris is quite a jump up in sound vs the focus se that several people have in my area.Earlier this year my wife and I listened to the Legacy Aeris and also Magico q3's but went in another direction for now.

Best of luck to you and let us know how they work out.

Kenny.
If the Ulf’s are so much better than the DI it begs the question what is wrong with the DI?

I have had three sizes of ATC - the bookshelf 20 (6 " woofer), the 100 (12") and the larger 150 (15") and they all sound very much the same just more dynamics/SPL and bass extension as you go larger. I would not think of it as an engineering achievement when different "engineered" models of speaker sound radically different - it begs the question which design is correct and does the designer follow engineering principles or just "experiment" and cobble a product together from what parts are readily available.

I advise to be wary. I would listen first - a big difference suggests you may prefer one over the other but how to know which one will be your personal preferred one without an audition. If one model hits it out of the park for you then it is hardly likely the other one will work unless it sounds very much the same (which the manufacturer has said it doesn’t.)
shadorne,

I personally hear nothing wrong with my DI's and I haven't heard either model of the Ulf's,I would like to but I believe IMO that the Ulf's are only going to beat the DI's in overall vertical dispersion and possibly have a more pinpoint stage with more reach out and grab it effects and the big Ulf's with 12 inch woofers obviously having deeper and lwr bass.

Just my opinion and I'm always open to others.

I'm going to let the dust settle down at the Tekton speaker works and then make my decision.

Kenny.
Willgolf
I probably would not have sold my Wilsons (if you really like them as much as you said) without hearing something better to replace them with. Full disclosure here -- I heard the Tekton DI speakers and ordered the Mini Ulfs just based on the DIs.
I have heard the Wilsons (several times), and am a huge fan of the Wilson sound. I also have heard the Persona speakers and I almost bought them until I heard the DI.
BTW, The Aeris is an AMAZING speaker that I think you will love.
Vitop
i went in another direction.  Because I had no opportunity to listen to the Tekton ulf,  I did go listen to sonus faber.  I compared the sonus faber to the Wilson Alexia.  For me the Sonus Faber Amati Tradition sounded better than the Alexia's.  I purchased them.  Unfortunately for me the person who was buying my Duette 2's backed out after I arranged the shipping. Needless to say I was upset.  I would not have spent the $32k on the Sonus Fabers had I known that.  My music now is a big step up.  I did talk to teajay and he is reviewing the ulf's now.  He basically said no speaker compares to it. 
I just could not wait for either the ulf or legacy aeris.  
Good. I’m really glad you found something you liked. Sonus was one of the brands that I heard quite a bit of also. They did not make it to my finals list, but they were nice (to my ears anyway). You were right not to buy something until you could at least hear something in the same family. It is a shame that they are hard to find right now. They are really good speakers. Enjoy the new Sonus!! You should still hear the Aeris when you can btw. To me, there was no comparison between the Sonus and the Aeris, but that’s just me. And the Aeris cost less on top of it. I’m not an owner, but as you can tell, I really liked them.
So there you have it. You just thoroughly trounced the OP's buying decision. But that's just you, right????
Willgolf,
I'm glad you found the speakers you love and give us a update after everything is dialed in.I haven't heard that model in the sonus lineup and would value your thoughts.

I'm sorry to hear about the buyer backing out of the deal,I've had that happen to me also so I can relate to your frustration.Hopefully a respectable buyer will come along.

Kenny.
Thx Kenny.. I already have 60 hours of listening and I can tell you the sound is like being in a perfect theater hall.  Even though the accoustics are awful in my room, these speakers provide a warm and open soundstage.  They can rock and they can lay back.  I listen to all kinds of music so I will not be fatigued listening like I would with Magico, as an example.  
Vitop ----yah, I get the money difference between the Aeris and the SF and the Ulf's.  It was one of those decisions where I made a little money in the stock market and said why not.
Willgolf:
Absolutely -- you always go for what you like. Sounds like you are enjoying them. That's great. I love to hear that they are providing the sound you love. It's all of our goals! And with only 60 hours, they are just going to get even better.

I smiled at your acoustics. I have the same problem. I must have one of the worst rooms acoustically that I can think of. My setup is mostly HT though so I have the benefit of room correction from my processor. Still... it makes you wonder what an acoustically good room would sound like and how much difference it would make. I don't have that luxury, so it's academic. 
Congratulations on your purchase. Sonus Faber makes beautifully built speakers and the Amati is exceptionally handsome. I have no doubt they sound as good as they look. All the best. 
Sunil Merchant. I am a Wilson Audio dealer The Wilson Audio Duette Series 2 is a formidable stand mounted loudspeaker. This speakers crossover is designed so you place it very close to your rear wall. Wilson Audio also installs Resistors to alter and change certain parameters. You should really spend some time in getting them setup. I have used my Duette Series 2 with really powerful Solid state amplifiers. They are one of the most musical speakers I have heard. Since you already own one of the finest, why not spend some time and optimize them in your room. Happy Listening my friend.