Why were 291 responses removed about Rap?


I do not care for rap.  It is not music.  I abhor unbridled censorship.  Why were 291 posts systematically removed,  then the post deleted by moderators?   I did have a serious reply, followed by two tamer ones. This is not about me.
834b4bb8 23fc 4a94 866a 7aa27ddd2853danvignau
That’s why we have adults to make sure YOUNG minds hear what they need to be hearing. You sing in the choir too? Just wondering? Jerry Lee was pretty zoom zoom along with Little Richard and heaven forbid Johnny Mathis..

Give me a break.. That’s why we’re called parents.. We do have eyes in the backs of our heads, AND when the neighbor kid is being a little $hit disturber, treat him to a meal not a phone call from the police.. SHARE your music, instead of, well what ever it is you said...

Just saying.. mercy.. The only time America comes together.. When there is a draft.. No body gives a crap NOW! Everyone goes the next go around WWZ.. Invaders from space... DUDE!!!
It’s not “racist” to dislike rap. Although the MSM would have you believe otherwise........
Answer: 2021 communist America.
Saying that rap isn’t music is straight up racist. Lots of ignorance in this thread and in this site in general.
Hi audioguy85.  I doubt your post will stay up long.
It would be entirely incorrect to suggest rap glorifies knife and gun based violence by black people and helps explain why so many of them are in prison.
BMM          black music matters

Just watched classic albums on telly- Club Classics Vol ! by Soul II Soul with Jazzie B and co; always liked their music. Lyrics/ rapping are not vindictive either but that was 1989- I suppose it's like skinheads were originally peace loving and then everything got nastier in a bad way although The Sex Pistols have left a legacy.

Saw them (Soul II Soul) and De La Soul as well I think live at Love Supreme Festival a few years back- still great but my god were they loud- had no ear plugs so left early before tinitus kicking in but could still here the beats from the train station.

Keep trying to like 'modern' rap (ie usually a guy ranting over a computer beat) but it really just doesn't do it for me, guess I'm just a dinosaur. Judging by MTV cribs I'm missing something

Tend to listen to 20's and 30's music more than anything now as it seems so much more happy and simple after a life of jazz, soul, rave, metal, some country, big band, 'pop', saxophone quartet, bebop etc etc

PS What happened to all the break dancing, beat box etc.?
Stoks - your comments made at 10:36 are brilliant.  
I’m surprised that 291 posts were removed. This forum is easily the most weakly moderated of the many I frequent.

Can anyone name a serious discussion forum on the internet organized around any non-political hobby where any time the easily triggered Fox News snowflake brigade can work in a way to call someone a communist or a fascist or to otherwise flex their conservative bond fides that it’s permitted to stand?

I’d add the same for liberal views on this site, but other than seeing people be sympathetic to issues of race, I haven’t seen explicit political arguments from the liberal side. People have pointed out the ways in which some of the orange people are sadly benighted as regards music, but its the orange side hurling all the insults.

Alas, Audiogon has a pretty thin user agreement so basically anything goes. Soon, this place will be like 4chan with the occasional discussion of turntables. 
Simple. Because as I tried to point out in my one post in one of the previously deleted threads, there has been (as is often the case) a lack of depth in the opinions expressed. As a result, not only does the content of the posts deviate from the strict subject of the thread (as required by forum guidelines) the posts become a vehicle for the poster’s self righteousness or indignation; regardless of which side of the coin is being expressed. Depth in communication style includes being able to scrutinize one’s own motivations for expressing the views expressed and, perhaps more importantly, THE WAY that we express them. A perfect example of what the end result of this lack of self scrutiny is the simple fact that this thread is headed in exactly the same direction as the others (deletion) and posters remain oblivious to their role in the problem. One doesn’t need to look far (above) to see what I mean.
All these guys decrying the misogyny in “rap music” crack me up... bet they’re real proponents of intersectional feminist ideology 🙄
Rap = recorded Migraine !!
Things that don’t scare me:
1) Rap music
2) Free speech
3) People voting
4) Equal rights for all
5) Negative sales trends for Old Spice, Vitalis and Metamucil as Audiophiles age
6) Different viewpoints
7) Bread that isn’t white


Things that DO scare me:
1) Cults
2) Deitization of flags
3) Voter suppression
4) Alternative facts
5) People who spend time thinking about a couple of straegic decisions Hitler could have made which would have resulted in a different outcome
6) People who have convinced themselves that equal opportunity for all has been achieved
7) People with only one chair in their listening room
What scares me: disinformation. Consider this warning from cyber policy and national security expert Dr. Herb Lin of the right-leaning Hoover Institution. He told a subcommittee of the House Armed Services Committee that in the modern era we are not formally at war, but we are not at peace either:

“Information warfare threat to the United States is different from past threats, and it has the potential to destroy reason and reality as a basis for societal discourse, replacing them with rage and fantasy. Perpetual civil war, political extremism, waged in the information sphere and egged on by our adversaries is every bit as much of an existential threat to American civilization and democracy as any military threat imaginable.”

https://www.hoover.org/sites/default/files/hasc_citi_-_written_testimony-2021-04-30-rerevised-final7...


Good rap is art! My best pal was a street poet back in the day and his on the fly lyric ability had us enthralled. No form of expression should be castigated or suppressed. Musically, synthetic bass can be more fun than a tired old vivace cacophony.
Saying that rap isn’t music is straight up racist. Lots of ignorance in this thread and in this site in general.


That word is so overused and watered down that it doesn't mean anything anymore.

It certainly doesn’t mean what YOU think it means......
rfnoise2  It sounds as if you are not a fan of, as you call it, Intersectional Feminist Idealogy". That would simply mean you do not think that the various circles of experience do not combine where they itersect to help form a woman's status in life.  Is that actually possible?
Censorship is not the same as moderation in a privately owned forum. 
More lazy thinking by a few who desire to inflame discussion. The wedding cake maker  can refuse the gay couple but a pox on social media rules and guidelines to foster civility. 
I am disapppinted that this conversation has brought out the racist comments.  Maybe the moderators saw that comning,.  Worse, they might Possibly, they even read such comments in the deleted thread , then decided to delete the thread. and maybe they actually read such ninsenseWhy is the entire thread not being deleted.  As to whether I like certain types of music, and whether you guys do,  Where would our music be without the influence of black culture?  Instead of Blues, Rock, and Jazz, we would all be listening to such drivel as , "Yes, I have no bananas",  'I'm a little tea pot", and "A Tisket A Tasket"...  Whoops, Ella co-wrote that!  I do not say that rap cannot be music.  I simply avow that I personally prefer music made by people who master their musical instruments, rather than create droning sounds from computer programs that generate tones and tone clusters from non-musicians. This includes much of today's pop drivel, not just rap and certainly not just "black musical genres".  I have a rap album I listen to regularly.  It is also heavy metal, but I cannot mention it.  When I did, the post was deleted.  Here is a hint:  The lead singer's name is a drink, and he is a TV cop and car warranty ad personality.  I like the "Body" of his work and "Count" on him to stay in the forefront of civil rights.
ghasley847  Right on, brother!  Anyone who reads 'Brother" as black should be ashamed.  I am not, and I bet ghasley isn't. 
@ghasley 

Very much agree with both of your lists.

The thing that scares the crap out of me the most:
DEEPFAKES

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T76bK2t2r8g

Regards,
barts
MODERATOR;  Please delete this thread.  It has devolved into a racist and FAUX 'newsish" ignorant redneck rant.  I suppose you saw that coming before.  If it is not deleted, can we assume that taking only the other side is poitically incorrect for the site?
@elangley01 then leave.

Saying that rap isn’t music is straight up racist. Lots of ignorance in this thread and in this site in general.
"...the posts become a vehicle for the poster’s self righteousness or indignation; regardless of which side of the coin is being expressed."

Finally another one.
Post removed 
"It has devolved into a racist and FAUX 'newsish" ignorant redneck rant."
I suppose you see who looks how and who is where. Speaking of made-up ideas presented as something other than that.
I flagged many posts in those three discussions as well as in the current discussion I have going about new artists in rap and hiphop because they were simply off topic and added nothing to the discourse.


So off topic that they had devolved the discussion into bigoted banalities and statements of ignorance, thus precipitating heated responses, which likewise engendered more bigoted banalities.


I can see why the forum moderators simply removed the discussions rather than police the offenders, but by removing them I feel it gives those who espouse a limited, bigoted perspective justification for seeing material that offends them removed.


And as difficult it is to refrain from addressing the obvious dog-whistles and overt bigoted opinions, I find it best from now on to just ignore them, much like one would ignore the tantrums of a small child who can't deal with change.
145 words, 4 "bigoted".

"...much like one would ignore the tantrums of a small child who can't deal with change."

Is that the theory behind tantrums?
Post removed 
@glupson -- first off, you have to enlighten me on how to quote a post. Like, I've hovered over everything on a post and nothing pops up. I've resorted to old school copy/paste procedure. How droll.

Second - why doesn't your name pop up when I hit the "@" key? Neither does MC's. Hmmm....


Third -- yes, 4 "bigoted". I could have used "biased", but that's too light in those cases. And the comments weren't technically racist as no power was being used to enforce anything. So "bigoted" seemed the right word for the context.


Four - if you have children, then yes - it's not a theory but as established fact that little kids can't deal with change and at times tend to freak out when confronted by it. Ever try to take a small child away from a play area before they're ready? Or unexpectedly introduce a new meal?
@ hilde45

You’ve hit another one out of the park. Thanks for the link

BTW please tell me if you get a notice  of this post  from Agon. Thanks
Instead of Blues, Rock, and Jazz, we would all be listening to such drivel as , ...'I'm a little tea pot"...

Instead, we acquired My Bucket's Got a Hole in It. No mention of tea pot status, though.

@noromance 

 
Good rap is art! My best pal was a street poet back in the day and his on the fly lyric ability had us enthralled. No form of expression should be castigated or suppressed. Musically, synthetic bass can be more fun than a tired old vivace cacophony.
I agree it is art. But is it the art of music or the art of rhyme & rhetoric  expressed w/ music in the background? The description is not meant to be derogatory but I can't think of a  better one. Interesting that you note that he was a "street poet" which is what many call themselves. 
What exactly is rap? It's spread into so many genres now like 'music' of the past. Surely the  question is that is all rap music? If not where are the boundaries and what's the best audio set-up/ format to listen to it through
simao,

I am old school just like you. I copy the text and paste it in that rectangle at the bottom of the page. Then I highlight it (as if I am going to copy it again) and click on the first thing on the left above the rectangle (parenthesis). That makes it change color and get that grey line next to it, visually differencing it from the text I write. I, most of the time, add parentheses (manually) to emphasize it is a quotation. Unless the quotation already has a quotation like in my post above.

There may be more automated way to do all of this, but I have not bothered to find it. I am worried about frustration (hint) from that process.

I have no idea about @. I never knew why people even put it there or that there is some secret way to use it. Maybe some artificial intelligence concluded that millercarbon and I are the same. Which means that programmer should work harder.

I simply noticed a number of "bigoted"s where I personally would not have put them so I counted words. It had nothing to do with meaning, but more with style. To my eyes, the text did not flow well because of one "bigoted" too many.

I have seen a lots of children over the years and, as much as change may sometimes precipitate tantrums, I am afraid that explanation is a little deeper than that. I would not be surprised if change is mentioned in literature, but I doubt it is emphasized as a cause. Just my view, I do not claim any deeper knowledge than that.
@artemus_5  Ironically, he called himself a rapper. Street poet is my effort at a neutral term.
...
Music? Art of the Muses? I like your term " rhyme & rhetoric" but let's make it: "rhythm, rhyme & rhetoric."
"rhythm, rhyme & rhetoric."

Bob Dylan gets a point again!

Bob Dylan - Like a Rolling Stone (Audio) - YouTube

Along with Dire Straits...

Dire Straits - Sultans Of Swing (Alchemy Live) - YouTube

(rhythm, rhyme, descriptions of socio-economic realities and hardships)


@noromance

Works for me.

@danvignau 
In your OP, you write: "I do not care for rap. It is not music."

Later, in comments, you write: "I do not say that rap cannot be music."

Which is it?
What I don't understand is why can't members keep disruptive posts that don't answer the OPs question to themselves? For instance, millercarbon's post above basically smacks of ignorance and preconceived notions and has no relevance to the OPs post. If some members want to talk about rap/hip-hop why is that so offensive to some. There's lots of people on here that listen to music that others don't prefer but we let that go on. I find it incredibly distateful that people feel it's both appropriate and acceptable to treat our fellow members this way. 
You learn a lot about people in threads like this. Rap.......maybe a little.  Live and learn!
rmdmoore,

"If some members want to talk about rap/hip-hop why is that so offensive to some."
"...why can’t members keep disruptive posts that don’t answer the OPs question to themselves?"

This thread was, according to OP, not about rap, but about Audiogon practice and some disappearing posts.

"For instance, millercarbon's post above basically smacks of ignorance and preconceived notions and has no relevance to the OPs post."

It just happens that millercarbon’s post addressed exactly that. In his way, in an attempted sarcasm, but he actually addressed the OP.

Which you and I have failed at.



I doubt if there is anyone here who can decide what is good or bad Rap.

Rap is created by those who're on the bottom rung, for those who are on the bottom rung; it is created by the "Ghetto" for the "Ghetto".
What I don’t understand is why can’t members keep disruptive posts that don’t answer the OPs question to themselves? For instance, millercarbon’s post above basically smacks of ignorance and preconceived notions and has no relevance to the OPs post.

The question posed by the Op was why 291 posts were removed. MC answered the ? & stated his opinion. It was relevant though maybe you think it distasteful. And that is your opinion. But as Glupson says above, it was not about the music but A’gon’s practices

FWIW I agree that disruptive posts should not occur. But perfection is not achieved in this world
I stand corrected.  I grossly overstated my case concerning rap, in general, rather than limiting my "Non-music" statement to computer generated tones of many genres.  Of course, this is also music, so I will try to clarify:  I prefer to call the music I like instrument driven.  Just because I do not like popular computer generated music( CGM), I should not claim it is not really music.  A CGI lion still represents a lion in films, so I will state that CGM at least represents music, even when it is total drivel.  I am not limiting "drivel" to rap, nor do I really claim that either cannot be called music.  Let's just admit that, as a musician of sorts,  I am an elitist pig who does not like the fact that music appreciation is no longer a requirement of our school systems, and firmly believe that if every child were exposed to the theories of, and the history of many music genres, we would have less actual fame driven drivel that represents music on the radio and on television..  
artemus_5  I agree that rap is art.  As in much of art, many people become such elitist pigs that they cannot see the creativity in culturally diverse creations. 
HOWEVER!   The focus is not on the music, but on the artistic expression,  I guess I actually prefer the artistic expression of jazz and blues' focus on the music, and musicianship, rather than the culturally different modern versions of rap.  Enjoy your rap. Call it music. Why not   It is for you.

What Agon has to say about Rap is about as moot as moot can get; it's kind of like a fart in a hurricane.
Simple answer: white fragility.
What Agon has to say about Rap is about as moot as moot can get


Yes but some rap recordings are worth a listen on a good hifi! System must be up to the task. I know I'm stretching but at least that’s something! Bass arrays should shine! Jeez....