- 102 posts total
- 102 posts total
audiotroy I really like your take! I started out with receivers, Pioneer, Technics and Onkyo then went to the NAD 3020 integrated when it first came out and really though it was pretty darn good. After that I wanted to try the seperates route. I had Adcom, Cary SLA-80 w/ Audible Illusions Modulus preamp and Blue Circle. pretty nice stuff but still had that hankering for a good integrated and I've been "integrated" since. I've had an Audiomat Arpege, C.R. Developments Kalypso then a step up to C.R.'s Romulus. I then went to SS and tried a Sonneteer Campion which I still have but wanted more power and now have a Primare i30 which is very good match to my speakers so I'm pretty pleased these days.
Here’s my phisological take on this.
After 35 years in this hobby, I never thought an integrated could sonically match (and exceed) a stack of reference tube electronics that it replaced in my system. This is a feat that would never have been possible for any integrated 10 years ago.
I have been so impressed that I have no desire to go back to separates. Not in my lifetime!!
Full disclosure....Speakers are Verity Audio Parsifal Anniversary although the Amadis S would mate a little better with this amp but hey, you can’t have everything.
About a year and half ago the wife could no longer take all the cabling and power cords associated with my tube monos and preamp, not to mention the sub in our family room and for lack of a better term was evicted out of there I really didn't have another room suitable for listening so I packed up all the components and purchased a relatively inexpensive pair of active speakers The Airpulse Mo
They actually sound pretty good and had a lot of fun with them but I happened to be scouring Craigslist and came across someone locally selling a pair of Platinum Audio Ref 1's and grabbed them. hooked them up to My Pioneer receiver a vsd x 912 and they sounded really good but seemed to be crying out for more power so I checked the ad someone mentioned here for the Denon PMA 2000 ixvr integrated and the person selling it also happened to be local and will be taking delivery of that as well soon. These are supposedly known for their high current capabilities and will report back after I get it. I guess my point is that a after all this rambling a decent integrated may be a good compromise for anyone without a dedicated listening room
Just the perspective of someone who struggles with the design trade-offs, both technical and the big one **COST**.
The unsaid part here is that everything is a compromise of what we want to do, against what we can afford to do - in design, mechanical, parts quality and quantity, etc. I think the original poster, who was assailed for having a "technical" perspective was simply aware of some of these trade offs that in the end, limit sound-for-dollar. I mostly agree with them. No matter either way.
An integrated amp reduces spend on several very costly parts that don’t contribute directly (yes indirectly) to sound quality - chiefly among them one chassis vs two. The big ticket items in almost anything are the chassis, heat sinks, transformer, and trim. Electronics are fairly modest. Heck, the packaging (cardboard box, etc.) often costs more than the circuitry itself. And you cut that in half too.
So the cost can come down faster than the quality.
There are issues with integrated amps, some noted above, but what has not been noted is that with some effort and money they can be overcome. Chief among them is the power supply compromise. I’ve done a couple of integrated designs, one as a contract, and i simply did not make that compromise - easy as that. Spend the money, build multiple idealized supplies. QED.
So the theme is valid - reduce cost, hopefully with a less-than-proportional reduction in sound quality. What will be lost?:
In fact I just slapped my own circuitry in a vintage integrated chassis from [fill-in high quality 1970’s Japanese manufacturer here] for my bedroom. And yep, i built three power supplies and somehow wedged them in :-)