How is shipping damage a manufacturing defect and ML's fault ??
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Delivering a product that works is the manufacturer's responsibility. If the manufacturer doesn't take the necessary steps to provide safe delivery and the consumer or dealer ends up with a faulty product at the point of sale or delivery, who else can you blame ? "Rough handling" is part of shipping and if you manufacture a fragile product, you better take steps to deliver it in one piece or get ready to go out of business / deal with upset customers. Only problem is, the gorilla's in shipping don't realize that extra shipping and packing costs that the manufacturer must now deal with end up raising prices for everyone, including them. Sean
I currently own 6 ML speakers (Odyssey / Cinema / Scenarios / Descent) and have bought and sold a pair of Aerius i's; I've never had anything go wrong whatever. A friend of mine has two pairs (CLS and Aerius) and again, no issues whatever.
Judging by the shipping cartons that I have, there would have to be complete malfeasance in shipping to cause problems.
There must be some sort of local disturbance in your area.
The shipping issue was on a used sale, it was discussed in a different thread - it had nothing to do with ML or any dealer.
Given that the panels can age or get dirty, and given that there are a lot of new people buying used, sometimes very old ML speakers, there are bound to be some problems and questions. A couple threads lately, but not a lot that I've noticed - 2 yeras ago I bought a used pair of SL3 that have been flawless, so much so that I recently bought used CLSII, and the problem I had was not with ML, rather that 14 year old panels were represented as new.
I understand that it seems suspect and exaggerated, but I believe him with his numbers.
I want to say that I am proud to know Johnk personally. He is a prodigious acquirer of all gear, especially speakers. I personally purchased two Martin Logan speakers from him that were part of two different systems. I remember seeing him with some older stuff years ago too. I have never seen anyone own as much product as this man. Constantly churning systems. My friends think I am obsessed and I think that Johnk is pretty obsessed compared to me.
If you check his feedbacks, you will get an idea just how much he has gone through since joining this community. He is not a reseller or a dealer, nor is he affiliated with any audio company. He just owned much more than I ever will.
A few years ago, I bought two new pairs of Martin Logan speakers, but I will never another Martin Logan product for several reasons. First, delivery took more than two months as a result of delays at the ML factory in Kansas. To reduce the delay and risk of shipping damage, my dealer suggested I ask ML to ship the speakers to me directly (the dealer was also far from my home and would have to ship the speakers to me after getting them from ML). ML refused to ship direct, thus further delaying delivery. Martin Logan said shipping to me directly would cause bad blood with their dealers (ignoring the fact that drop shipping was the dealer's suggestion). So I canceled my order.
Shortly thereafter, Dennis Chern, ML's U.S. Sales Manager, called me and told me he had been "instructed to do everything possible to effect a positive outcome" on my order. He then said Martin Logan would pay the $350 shipping charge (from dealer to my house) if I reinstated my order. After Chern assured me this arrangement would not affect my dealer's profits, I accepted Martin Logan's offer. Once the speakers were delivered, however, Martin Logan refused to pay the shipping charge. In a letter faxed to me two months after delivery, Chern said "Martin Logan is not in a position to make a decision on reimbursement of shipping costs" and then said that I should take the matter up with my dealer and ask them to pay the charge (even though the dealer was not responsible for ML's shipping delay and was never apprised of the agreement made by Chern). So much for not creating bad blood. Adding insult to injury, Martin Logan never bothered to answer any of the letters I wrote to Galye Sanders asking them to honor their agreement. As a result of all this, it got to the point where I couldn't listen to the speakers without feeling cheated and betrayed. So I sold both pairs at a considerable loss and inconvenience. I have never been treated so badly by any company, much less an audio company.
Based on these experiences, I am convinced Martin Logan is not a reputable company. JohnK's string of bad experiences with Martin Logan only reinforces this opinion. Caveat emptor. Don
Yes Iam crazy and have owned this many logans .I have nothing to prove if you dont believe me .Thats your problem .The damage martin logans where not damaged by shipping .Dont see how the parts could just fall off the speaker and out the box.lol .And wrinkled pannels are a design problem martin logan admited it was having ,problems with the lexan spars.The best speaker I purchased from them was my CLS2Z only took 3 months after I ordered for them to arrive.And the descent sub had no issues.I knew I would upset some with this post but this is my experance with martin logan .Yours maybe diferant
All my martin logans where purchased new from a dealer .The problems where not shipping related .I dont mean to offend happy logan owners just letting others know my experances with there products .1 time after many complants about my Prodigy,wrinkled pannels ,cosmetic dammage ,screws missing bolt holding the binding posts was missing .They took care of me after a month and 1/2, also sent me a shirt and 3m dust cloth .So nice of them .JK
Maybe people don't believe your post because you SAY you have had 8 pairs. Come on, why would anyone buy a speaker 8 times who has had nothing but problems???? I would think after a couple of bad speakers, no more than 3 you would say enough is enough, but to buy 5 more pairs that doesn't make any sense. You also say that the damaged Logan's wasn't by shipping so I guess that means all 8 pairs that you bought were packed damaged?? If this was the cause and a practice Martin Logan does do, don't you think this would have been talked about a lot here and on other message boards?? 8 pairs?? If they were all bought from the dealer wouldn't he take them back?? Or did all this happen after they were in your system for a period of time?
I purchased the logans over a 14 year period I like the sound of pannels so I put up with the problems .Who cares what others believe .I do not lie .If you read my post you would see that 5 pairs of the 8 I bought gave me some problems also the last couple pairs gave me the most grief thus I no longer will buy M/L products. This is my experance with M/L .I could care less if others dont believe me .Happy listening
All problems where there after set up ,some took a few days to discover .The worst offenders where my ,Request bad woofer ,wrinkled pannel ,baffle material hanging out from the woofer .Prodigy ,wrinkled pannels ,cosmetic issues missing parts ,Ascent poor fit and finnish,Quest buzzing pannel,CLS2Z 3 month delay in shipping ,trim match problems.Martin logan took care of the problems .I was just wondering if others had a similar experance .