Why pay so much for super high end?


Most speakers costing $50,000+ use Seas, Scan Speak or Accuton.

In DIY forums most speakers designed use bargain drivers and usually are only 2.0 designs not bookshelf or center speakers to complete a surround system.

I’d love to have a Scan Speak 11 speaker system for atmos with 3 way bookshelves, center and floorstanders.

Why aren’t the designs out there and why are you guys pissing away all your money.

Personally I won’t get an upgrade from my speakers unless it’s of this caliber and neither can I afford nor want to donate money to these thieves.

A 3rd party 11 speaker atmos scan Speak system would be nice but I’m not spending $250,000.

Why on earth aren’t there designs out there for this and why do you all piss away your money?

I don’t get why hi fi isn’t all DIY even honest factory direct companies mark up 300%.

Unless you pull in $1+ million a year and don’t have any time I don’t get it.

Are you guys lazy?

Someone easily could design a great crossover and cabinets for everyone and the days of paying over $3,500 for a pair of loud speakers if you got some time or know a friend who could build cabinets would be over. I know of people who could design cabinets that rival $100,000 speakers and cost less than 1% than that.  Someone with some experience could easily design a diamond, beryllium and soft dome and various versions for various tastes.

I don’t get it. Speakers are so simple.  Crossovers cabinets and drivers.

You guys just throw your money away I don’t understand it why?


funaudiofun

Showing 3 responses by phusis

I like MAGICO all there high end lines Q,M3 etc use there own drivers which are much better than Seas,Scan Speak or Accuton they sound much better as well.In the end you get what you pay for.

It's all about the implementation. It's the same tune of the advantages inherent to a manufacturer making its own drivers, yet going by auditions I've never found compelling reasons to favor the speakers of such manufacturers (the one exception perhaps being ATC, but being an exception may as well be a coincidence). 

What's the point really in calling drivers to be "much better" just to continue saying "they sound much better as well"? I'm guessing that's the give-away: components being much "better" is so for being more expensive (or of a more expensive whole), but whether they actually sound better is not the apparent conclusion.

You don't necessarily get what you pay for; it's just a bollocks story the marketing people wishes to be sold as consistently true.
Vivid Audio has shaped their drivers which is perhaps more important then shaping the cabinets. The drivers are designed to allow the back waves to flow more freely past the magnet and spider towards the dampening. Looking at most drivers even on very expensive speakers it is easy to see that a large portion of those back waves are just going to bounce off the magnet and spider and fly back through the thinnest part of the cabinet, the very thin cone. There goes the clarity.

I’ve never heard Vivid Audio speakers, but would like to. They are compelling in light of how their sound is described, and are said to be very dynamic and resolved. Perhaps you could elaborate?

What you mention though with regard to the free flow of the back waves emitted by the drivers seems if not unimportant, then a curious highlight from anyone other than the manufacturer itself. I’m not saying this particular technical feat doesn’t matter, but what is it to us really to speculate into these issues when what most of us really do is being immersed in the totality of their reproduced sound? What I’m getting at is the effect of being lead on by claims that seek to explain this and that feat and its sonic importance, when we can only really assume its (ir-)relevance and should perhaps refrain from any further deduction. For example, many of us have been spoon-fed with the apparent importance of speakers being slender, that (multiple) smaller drivers are quicker, that certain diaphragm materials are desirable, that totally inert cabinets are a must, etc., and we then go on to label this off as the truth ourselves. Let’s not pretend to be oblivious to the business importance of brand distinction, the domestic (spouse-)demands for smaller size, the want for convenience and on and on, and how all of this is catered to to varying degrees by the manufacturer. It seems to me we’ve lost at least some, or even a vital part of reference outside of what the industry "dictates" or fashions, a reference that rests more solely within the listener.

It should be noted that heavy speakers boasting their size and weight actually work against physics in that heavier materials resonant at a lower frequency. Low frequencies are much harder to deal with. Much harder. Larger cabinets will always propel greater amounts of cabinet resonance into the room. The reason is simple. If the area of the cabinet is 100 times the area of the driver then the cabinet only has to resonate at 100th the amount of the driver to deliver the same amount of energy into the room. The test for this is to stop at a traffic light next to a car with a subwoofer in the trunk. The sound is amplified by the surface area of the car..

A propos.. Reading over at Oswalds Mill Audio on the choice of hardwoods for building their very large conical horns and cabinets, Mr. Weiss mentioned particular woods as being sonically desirable (i.e.: "the ones that sound good"). So, this is actually acknowledging the contribution of the surfaces not being the diaphragms themselves, but that would otherwise play a factor in the overall sonic outcome, and work with them as part of a whole. Others would fret over the issue of progressive size and its associating resonant tendencies, and altogether ditch their justification. Or, try to work around them as a means of seeking resonance elimination, and end up with enclosures the weight of several hundred kilos a piece, and a new set of challenges with the drivers being the by far biggest sonic contributor - not necessarily desirable.
The thing about the waves off the back of the driver is that they have an output that is equal to the output into your room. The usual way to deal with that is add MDF bracing upon bracing which adds weight and more weight which lowers the resonance and makes the problem worse.  High resonance is much easier to deal with. Ping on a wine glass, to shut it down you merely touch it with your finger. That won't happen when you rap on a larger and heavier pan for example. Take out the 12" woofer from a speaker and you can see how vulnerable they are.
Ideally to deal with resonance a speaker should be small and light. Or as small as possible and still maintain enough volume to load the drivers.


So in effect a plea for small(er) speakers? Resonances of higher frequencies may be easier to deal with, but where present are potentially more obtrusively audible, or? What about the shortcomings of small speakers as going by their limited radiation area and SPL capabilities (not as a means of max. SPL per se, but rather their ease of reproduction at more "normal" listening levels)? Sheer impact, physicality and emotional connection would go by the wayside, as I see it, if small and low sensitivity was all there ever was. What then is ultimately won?