Why no threads on OTL amps?

Well there have been threads on theses marvels but there doesn't appear to be too much experience. Many steer clear of tube amps because of the hassle, an OTL even more so because of the heat output and the impedance restrictions with perceived reliability issues in hot pursuit.

With the right amp to the right speaker, isn't there always a catch, there really isn't anything NOT to like. To me, at their best with the proper load they are the ultimate, a conjoining of the virtues of both ss and tubes that being speed, clarity, presence with incandescent highs and very well defined controlled bass comparable to the best out there. The key again is amp/speaker interface.

oh and btw I concur with both Chris and Ken about the Berning. You WILL be amazed at its sound, versatility, price and weight/performance. The hardest part is just getting past the small size. Then you listen, no way man, how'd Berning do that? The zhotl is the latest incarnation of "the little engine that could".

Twl-When you think of SETs you think of the late Gizmo Harvey Rosenberg of NYAL's fame. He went absolutely bonkers over the Seigfried and the zero hysterisis technology in general. The ultimate realization of tube technology today must include the Siegfried with either the 300b or 811 triode. Imagine a low powered SET that isn't limited to that magical midrange but expands its performance into the high and low frequencies as well. Regulated switching power supply and an OTL output stage, dead quiet, auto biasing, reliable, low heat and elimination of transformer related distortions. Where do you go from there? I guess it can be refined but in reality Berning has established a new path and there seems to be a hush over it in the audio community. I haven't heard this amp yet but can only guess that it sets new benchmarks for SET design and may be near the pinnacle of reproduced audio with the right speakers for those looking at this approach. There is much to be said for low power and highly efficient speakers. The zh270 itself is so incredible that you really have to wonder about the advanced level of design and engineering in these special products. I haven't stopped wondering since I got mine over 2 months ago.

Twl I am also a Transcendent folk, still have it. A great little 25 watt amp it is. This is the one that brought me to the realization of what OTL amps are all about. I doubt that you can do better at the price and power rating.

Regardless of which of the OTL amps that are choosen for a given application and load the one indisputable fact is that these amps as a group are uniquely special. After all, this isn't a p...ing contest, is it? I have not had the priviledge of hearing the Joules, Graff or Tenor but I'm sure they have their virtues and that each might be picked over the other in a given application.

My problem with Siddh's choice is that I can't live in Florida with an increase of 8-10 degrees in my room, the plants would wilt and so would I. I'm sure I could live with its sonics which by all accounts is among the best. But 220 OTL watts, must put out 1200-1500 watts at idle. I guess I could settle for the M-60's, still a lot of heat. This is why I went with the Transcendent originally but ultimately it didn't have quite enough headroom with certain music.

The Atmaspheres, Joules and Tenors may be better on an absolute level than the Berning with a given speaker system. The Berning would be a better choice for me with my speakers and probably would be a better all around choice for a lot more audiophiles. What other tube amp increases power ala ss into low impedance loads? Transformers saturate and compromise the bass and high frequency performance and OTL's start doing crazy things to the dynamics of the music and become unstable into such loads. Well you just add more tubes to up the current. Sounds like a great choice if you live in a cool climate or have a dedicated venting system for the amps. This is the whole point of Bernings' design.

Twl In defense of Jtinn I would like to say this, he has always let it be know he is a dealer in each thread he is involved in where he offers an opinion or rave. I certainly sense his enthusiasm for the Tenor and have come to highly respect his input. The Tenor has really gotten high praise from every corner. Then again I would expect nothing less based on its price. If it turns out to be a mirage, the company won't last. I would love to hear it in my system but I could never justify to myself (or wife) spending that much money on an amplifier.

I am probably not as critical of this as you might be since you are an insider and better know than I how it works. You make some interesting points. I on the other hand have never been involved in the audio industry. There is not one individual that could ever pursuade me that one thing is better than another. Only my ears will do that. One of the most important things I always try to convey to anyone seeking my opinion is that yes, you may respect it but to ALWAYS trust your own ears first. Opinions from trusted peers just help narrow down the choices.

I also feel it is useless to compare two completely different and unfamiliar systems and try to attribute the sound of one over the other to a particular component, there are too many variables. The big plus for the Berning amp over the others is not whether it is the absolute "best" but all the pluses it offers over other OTL's including cost. My assessment using that criteria is, nothing I'm aware of comes close. Others may look at that comment as a compromise when to them only the "best" counts regardless of anything else. Unfortunately best often times is associated to price and it is not always true.

And thanks Twl for starting the thread. I hope it has the benefit of opening the eyes and ears of those that are looking for something they haven't yet heard that resides only in OTL designs.

Mes, I highly doubt that anyone is going to "take a bath" on a 4.5k amp when upgrading to one 4 times the price. I don't see the relevance of your post nor understand your point. Used Bernings don't seem to hang around on the market long. Berning's reputation seems to have been built on word of mouth more than marketing hype. Maybe another reason for the relative obscurity of his products to most audiophiles. His approach appears more 'take it or leave it". He doesn't need to push his products and if you weren't aware, has been around much longer than most of the other well known hi-end manufacturers with very few exceptions. The reason? low overhead and product acceptance. The guy hand makes each amp in his home. Now that's what I call sticking to basics.

Hi Jonathan

You are right, by the truest definition of OTL, the Berning is not. The patent application and schematic is on Berning's website for those interested. It may be a moot point, the proof is in the listening. I am not certain how it would compare head to head with an ideal load next to the top tier OTL's with all other things being equal. I will say that next to the Transcendent 25 watt amp, there really is no contest. My wife, who could care less, noticed it immediately before she even knew I changed anything. The Berning doesn't take a back seat in any performance area. Then again it is more powerful and this can certainly come into play in the equation. The big difference is the clarity at all frequencies of the Berning over the Transcendent. There is also a better sense of space and definition. Bass performance is in a word, incredible. Not only control but placement in the recording space, much better than the Transcendent. This isn't really a fair comparison since the Transcendent is less than half the price. But to these ears the Berning beats the hell out of any transformer coupled amp I've heard. The Transcendent does too, within its power limitations. It is just that these designs are faster, more resolving and natural sounding.

There are varying opinions about the Berning on some stats, especially at the frequency extremes. This in comparison with other OTL's. With the benign load of Merlin VSM-M's the performance is stellar.

I'll just go on believing that it doesn't get too much better than this. Ignorance truly can be bliss especially at this level of performance.

Now this is the way it SHOULD be, folks really passionate about how they hear reproduced music. btw Twl, did I say thanks to you for starting this thread?