Why is the market for used Levinson amps so slow?

Harman betrayed their own subsidiary, the Mark Levinson line, about 6 years ago. They have relocated the company several times, fired the engineers who designed such great products like the 33, 332, 334, 336, 436 and 33h amps, 32 preamp, 31.5, 390, 360, 30.6 and 39cd players, transports, and DACs and several other pieces I can't remember. Not only did they discontinue these products they also stopped repairing them in house and charge a set, nonnegotiable very expensive price to service each piece. Worse still the new service centers sometimes took months to repair equipment and many times the equipment was not repaired when it arrived back to the dealer or back home. I had a pair of amps that went MIA for a year and a half and I owned the Levinson Reference system so I know first hand what I'm talking about. Since then I have sadly sold all my Levinson equipment before it became rather expensive boat anchors.
Irvrobinson,
If you put a Krell amp in your system and a Levinson amp in the system unless you have hearing problems it is easy to hear the difference. I've owned both, I like the sound of both, but the products are voiced much differently and it is relatively easy to hear the differences in the designer's choices.
Grannyring,
I agree with you and others, this site has become way less user friendly
(some features just don't work anymore) as well as lost the sense of community. It is as if the Gods of Audiogon have taken lessons from the Harman Inc.'s business plan on how to destroy a well oiled business machine. They seem to have adopted the same uncaring and unresponsive attitude. I wonder which university is teaching such modern business practices?
And some wonder why in some ways the USA is losing its edge?

Sorry,
I was not attempting to start one of those endless debates between Levinson vs Krell or any other amplifier. I could easily live and have lived with both amps in past systems. I believe both amps to be sonically equal with many other high end amps on the market today. I've heard the new Levinson stuff and the new Krell EVO and if I was made of money I'd probably have a system amplified by both. All I was trying to say is, one can readily hear the difference in the voicing choices made by each amplifier's designer. The amps share many similarities and specifications, but they do sound different in the way they present the music. If one used the exact same setup that you had listened too for a while and just substituted the amp of the approximate same power and made sure the volume was the same using a meter, you could hear the difference between two given amps be they Krell, Levinson, Bryston, ARC or Sim.
And just to be sure no one thanks I'm endorsing the above brands of amps over other unnamed ones, I just didn't feel like listing every brand of amp manufactured. One's final choice for the amp in their system might depend on personal taste, finances, system integration, reliability, and availability in your area among other factors.
Sorry if my above comments were misunderstood by any and all.

Nicely put Irvrobinson. Both amps can sound amazing.

Tmsorosk,
I take issue with your insistence that Levinson has no reliability, service, and credibility issues. I have documented my experiences above and I assure you that I could tell you many other true stories from people I know since Harman kicked the Madrigal out of Levinson. I myself experienced my pair of Levinson 436 amps falling into a black hole for a year and a half at which point they were returned to me still broken, returned broken again, and then broken again, to have them send me a new pair because of their ineptness, which also DOA on arrival. It took 2 years to get the amps back and working. Then there were my friend's #33 Reference amps which gave him a similar experience at 350lbs this was no laughing manner. I helped uncrate, setup, and recrate these amps several times much to my bodie's apparent displeasure, but when the 33s sang there was nothing like them.

To get my Levinson Reference 31.5 serviced at one of the service centers cost $1400.00 up front no matter what the issue was. This had to be charged on your credit card before they would issue an RA. You were only supposed to be charged what it cost to fix it, but, you guessed it, the repair of the product always took the full amount charged.

I have a good friend that worked at the largest volume Levinson dealer in the world at this time. Levinson could not supply them with parts or product for months after the Harman coup, up to a year and a half in some cases. The dealer ended up eating the cost of these products and supplying the custys with brand new alternate and equivalent products to keep their relationship good with custys. As a result, the company kicked out Levinson for its executives had no answers as to what was going to happen to the company. My friend sold his complete Levinson Reference system and counseled me to do the same with mine which I did with lots of regret. A Reference system consisted of the #33 amps, #32 preamp,#31.5 DAC,#30.6 DAC and the Revel Salons which adds up to about a $100 grand or so. I had everything accept the 33amps but used 2 pair of 436 amps to biamp the Salons. In a lot of ways I still miss this system. It looked and sounded awesome.

Since dumping Mark Glazier and the fine folks that made Madrigal (Levinson, Proceed, and Revel) (For some reason Harman treated Revel differently. Maybe because they had a separate plant in CA under designer Kevin Voecks. ) Levinson has had several presidents and been relocated at least 3 times that I know of. I believe Levinson is now made at the Crown plant and technology is shared. I believe service is still provided as outlined above.

Levinson under Madrigal was at its zenith in the 80s. Mark Levinson was long gone from the company by that time and Mark Glazier was the president and steward of the brand. Owning Levinson at this time was pure pleasure. The folks at Madrigal were unmatched as representatives of the line. After you called with questions the techs would soon know your name, served as audio consultants and were always there to provide advice on system setup and upgrades. They were probably one of the best in the business at that time. Levinson did not belong to the new product each year club. Because of their painstaking design work and attention to detail it might be several before a new upgraded design would be implemented. Many components could be upgraded at the dealers or the factory without having to buy a whole new component.

As for the capacitors going bad in the 300 series amps, it is true that the vendor of the caps Levinson used sold Levinson a great deal of caps which did not have a long longevity. Once this problem was known, Levinson under Madrigal, would replace the caps at no charge to the owners and I believe would pay the freight one way. I'm not sure if Harman Levinson would do the same. I doubt it.

So if you include the above paragraphs I've written you have the well and documented Levinson story. There are signs that Harman is trying to revive the line and restore some of its dignity once again. There new product and new dealers have been added. I was told that the main reason Harman is still making Levinson equipment is because the Levinson car audio is such a cash cow.

I still take out my deluxe coffee table book which Levinson Madrigal produced for the Reference Line and look through it fondly and think about collecting each piece again. As an audio brochure I've still not seen its equal.

I would be glad to try to supply the answers to any questions about the line you have as obviously I know a little bit about the product and company.

Timsorosk,
I was not upset. I'm glad you have nothing but great experiences. That's what I had before Madrigal was kicked out. And it was Harman's disregard for the customer that made me eventually sell my stuff. They did send a bottle of wine and a loaner amplifier eventually. But you would not believe how many fabrications I was told about those amps and why they were taking so long to service them. It turned out they "lost" them.
Thanks Tpreaves and and Charles1dad. It took the patience of Job not to go off on them at the time. So I ended up writing letters to the President of Harman and Levinson before I got everything all straightened out.

Alls well that ends well as I have a much better system now.
I just wanted to record this info for those interested.
I'm hopeful that Levinison might recover as they are at least offering new product now. But I'd really watch what Harman might be up to, as Harman was/is for sale I believe and who knows what then could happen.
Thanks for reading.
Steve

From what I've read about his book "Satisfaction" he might be in danger of
"overheating.".