Tech talk is fun.
Some people hated science and math (to their detriment) and they still get a stiff spine reading it. I can't help them.
Why Do You Post?
I come here to poke fun ONLY... No need for tech talk. AG could care less. I'm trying to draw the TROLLS out.. I'm bored.
This is what someone posted in an active thread. I'm dumbfounded!
I come to Audiogon to learn and share information, keep abreast of audiophile happenings and to gain exposure or insight into music. I thought I was in the majority camp of users, but based upon the above quote, could be I'm not.
I posted that for a reason. Watch what happens. I’m still bored. You posted to show your reverence for the stereo world. I posted to show my support for the many AG posters that are no longer here. I know HOW to hook up RCA, that is what AG has turned into.
oldhvymec is still on picket. I’m one of his supporters. You have a problem with that? What made this place is GONE.. Wake up....
GK, MC, OHM, kenjit, georgehifi, helmholtzsoul, the guy from Russia, guppy, and 500 more..
Are you guys blind. The lemmings are running, fall in.
AG has a real problem with OWGs and conservative view point.. Me I just got a problem in general. I don’t like bully bosses.. Or moderators...
For the same reasons I came to AG over 20 years ago (!). But, I think like you, I find that too many of the users come here for ego enhancement at the expense of other members. To many responses to user questions and problems are driven by what product will ’solve’ the problem, too few responses about the problem itself and what solutions are available. Drive out the trolls and merchants I say. Perhaps some DIY stuff like the old days. Say what you will about our prolific contributor, he is a DIY proponent, i.e. open minded.
FWIW, this forum does not represent what I came to audio to experience, yet ’hope springs eternal’. :-)
I first started posting at the end of 2005, to get feedback from other users who had made the switch from full range electrostats to horns. I got some good input. Since then, I’ve periodically posted on troubleshooting issues, including electrical system approaches, on "new to me" LPs (most of which are old or just standard pressings from back in the day- not audiophile reissues of warhorses) or occasionally, to help someone who asks about equipment with which I’m familiar.
I find that the chat fora do change over time-- nature of the beast. I still check in at Audiogon, but am not as involved here as I once was.
I do like the "community" aspect- moderation was never really an issue since there seemed to be a general understanding that civility was better than snark if your objective was to get or share information.
If people want to use the board to fight or engage in a battle of wits, knock yourself out. One thing that seems to be a constant theme these days is the elusive "magic bullet" type tweak that is going transform your system. I think getting the basics right first is more important.
When I came up in this hobby, you didn’t have to spend the equivalent of a house to get what was considered "high end" (although not cheap, even then, compared to mass market). Some of that equipment still endures. Now, I think a lot of people are looking for reasonably priced alternatives and there is a huge amount of equipment out there- tube amps, turntables, cartridges, etc., to say nothing of innovations in digital home playback.
I think there’s always a tendency to recommend what you own, or aspire to. I do try to resist that, and often avoid product recommendations altogether, looking instead to what the user’s objective is, room, state of AC power.
I also don’t pretend guru status. I guess being amused may be more important than being informed. We’ll age out and the next generation will take the helm if it hasn’t already.
The only constant is change.
What can I say? I enjoy hanging out here. The posters at the 'gon may be surlier than normal but they also tend to be brighter than normal. In any event, I have a thick skin when it comes to engaging in arguments over the aether. For one, you don't have to suffer through your fellow poster's not-quite-minty breath. Just don't put down Gustav Mahler!
I try to help people understand how to get a realistic, actual musically correct signal to come out of their gear.
how it evaluate gear in isolation.
how a single cause analysis test should work,
how to assemble that into a system,
how evaluate the parts of a system,
How the human ear works so they learn how to listen
How the mind works on connection to hearing so they can learn to listen past and through their internal filters and faults.
None of this is simple, until it becomes instinct and such. that 10,000 hr thing.
In such scenarios, the key point is the fixing of the self, the growth of the self -above and beyond all else. which people in general are loathe to do, they’d rather shoot and destroy everything around them, instead of that. Growth is painful (literally painful, seriously) as it requires the death of the old to occur first so the new can fit in.
So it’s a fight, an unwanted one, but one I enter into willfully and knowingly, about how it can engender dislike, in some, of my posting.
Most times it’s not fun, but i don’t know what else to do. nothing else works, IMO and IME. The data needs to be out there, for when people do break down and look for it, and are ready for it.
There is no fix, for any of this in being a necessity and ’a way’ (this is the way), as we all learn differently and we all have different minds, we all hear differently and we all take a different path up the mountain. Ie, that people spouting a singular story ("this is what I do, etc") is just us playing the ego echo chamber game of self reflection and hoping we get no hatred when we speak and expose our frailty to the world.
So there is no such thing and never will be of one single method of learning new things. There are as many ways of learning as there are people in the world and the best we can get to is forms of/in generalism, with manifold examples, in manifold directions. Thus, due to all of the above..I change how it say it, often, almost in a form of rotation, just talking around the subject in various different methods and ways.
to take it to a next level of complexity, the problem is that it is forums, so it is further removed from full and proper communication so misinterpretation and reflection of one’s own ego and emotions somehow being read in my message, is the norm. (not what I said, or what I meant, but how the reader feels) That’s how forums work.
To add, music is not about logic, or bettering the self through trial and error, it is about blanking out and pleasuring the self. Engaging the monkeys timelss joy in moving to the beat or getting lost in the ethereal aspects of loss of time and pressures. Which is the opposite of self control and considerations.
So we can get people’s blind and rejecting ugly side as a norm, on audio forums, if we inject the tension of discussion and argument in what is essentially a very complex multi-faceted scenario of high quality audio reproduction in one’s own home.
Getting high and getting off is a complex affair. In this case, chock full of individualism and a lack of understanding, yet we all seek peaks, peaks that require all of that.
@teo_audio - I got turned onto Dobie Gray in around '73, and "got" the soulful vibe. I tracked down a couple of his records a while ago. Musical taste is separate from a well tuned hi-fi, though the system should, ideally, be genre/style agnostic. I dig a lot of the '70s soul/fusion/jazz, which was not a high point for vinyl pressings, but pretty wide ranging in terms of musical taste. I can play heavy, proto-three chord, classical or pretty much any genre, but prefer certain small combo jazz from the '70s. Although my taste in music should not be a deciding factor in assembling a system, it may prove to be, especially for those on a budget.
trolls gonna troll, it’s all they got to offer... wake up every morning, no other joy available through more productive and positive means
rather pitiful actually
we all know real people in our lives in this unfortunate position... these folks actually deserve empathy, help, love... except here, they are anonymous and spoil the experience for others...
@audioguy85 No ducks here but plenty of quackery.
I post mainly to expose silly notions for being just that.
All posts in a forum have value when they do not make fun of the topic. It is nice to exchange, views, findings, knowledge and can support them with your own experiences. There are people here who have certainly learned something more, practiced it, regardless of whether say so. I saw the other day a post by a happy man for all the advice he was given. That's the real value of participating and posting.
Can I replace "know-it-all" with "people with both the education and experience to confidently either state something as true or refute what someone else thinks is "knowledge" but is just an audiophile lore?
I do not post very often. I joined because I thought this site would be informative. I do not often read the threads because more often than not they end up off topic and full of nasty comments when so and so does not agree with so and so. Maybe it has changed I will see. There are other websites that are not as adversarial and your comments are welcome.
Wow, you roll in for a week and have it all solved? Angry old MAN trashing someone doing her best to facilitate angry old men spewing forth.
Its merely another sock puppet account for oldhvymec .
In some respects I hope the mods leave it up long enough for folks to reflect on the true nature of the man.
3 … 2 … 1
What is exposed in this particular post, is a lack of understanding or meaning, of this singular word ’lore’ - where the post pivots around the use of the word lore.
I feel like I'm fairly knowledgeable about music (I play music trivia at a local bar once a week) so whenever there's a post about music I might chime in with an opinion. I also like to tell a joke so if there's an opportunity for that, I might chime in there as well. I'm not all that knowledgeable on the technical side of components and telling people what I have and why I like it (except maybe for Magnepan imaging) seems kind of pointless because it's always up to the individual to figure out what they like. I'm kind of shocked at what people spend for stuff like cables which can only make a small improvement to the actual sound coming out of the speakers because I'm a "bang for the buck" shopper. I do also look for topics that everyone seems to be in agreement on as far as the quality of components and the only thing I've found so far that almost everybody seems to agree on is REL subs. So if I ever choose to buy another sub, it will likely be an REL sub. That about covers it.
In the beginning many years ago on other forums i posted about what i must bought and i try to inform myself about products...I was lucky in my study, i bought 2 Sansui Amplifiers and a dac and speakers at no cost almost... 😁😊
The Sansui was high end in 1978....it is good today, if not very good today ...Or if not good enough, to beat it will cost me a Berning ZOTL amplifier more costly or an Atmasphere amplifier more costly many times too ....I dont have the money but i discovered this marvellous fact: the S.Q. /price ratio modulo some acoustic and psycho acoustic science and experiments ... We can go very far with that...I did...
After some years and when i bought the right gear, i posted about "tweaks" and my 8 headphone modifications because i did not have money and i also wanted to improve my room /speakers sound...Without knowing how to do it...
Some help me with pointing the right direction : for example my experiments with springs...And sorbothane and other materials...
But i was sting by the virus of " listening experiments" slowly growing with few small success after another in my modifications course....
After many search in reading, someone mention the word "Helmholtz" the same guy who mention the springs to me...He was alas! banned now... 😁😊
I embarked then alone in my own journey in acoustic for 2 years non stop...
Now i am done, happy, after all this fun listening experiments and devices creations homemade at no cost...My dedicated audio room is my temple of joy...It is now only a listening room, i dont need much addons...
I come nowadays for only 2 reasons : reading some friends here, posting about ONLY one thing :
Dont upgrade BEFORE righfully embedding you system in his 3 working dimensions : mechanical, electrical and acoustical in particular...
I like also to post in the classical and jazz section and asian music section about musical choices among my near 10,000 cd and files...
I joined to learn. There are some of us who are beginners and need help. I personally think there are people who are very insecure and like to make fun of people. I think it is in poor taste to intimidate others. The first thing I think about is maybe they are a dealer or simply insecure. It is easy to sit behind a monitor, drop your bombs and disappear. This is why I think offering Zoom Meetings would allow us to connect a face, a voice with a name. This to me would change the dynamics.
I find this entire forum to be a pit of vipers.
Some with good intent only fan the flames and seek to keep intact their internet fiefdom.
To date I have only found a few useful posts that were interlaced with neo political retorts and ad hominiem attacks.
I have seen in these pages where a select group of people attack other mercilessly because they have a differing opinion or ideology.
I am not a fan of ASR but the there are some here that are no better than that group or the folks at SH Forums.
What I mean by lore, is the typical use, I noticed you frequently do, of for lack of a better term, fake or misused science. Much of it seems made up, but misapplication is also rife, i.e. using concepts that have some factual basis, but are totally irrelevant because the effect is so small. Repeating an untruth repeatedly does not make it true.
I post here for audio related matters but got tired and fed up with all the ones who wanted to turn this into some version or chapter of their facebook page with all the attendant misgivings of their lives, bringing all manner of anger and resentment.
I just got sick and tired of it all and spoke up. The ones who complain about it are the biggest hypocrites around, acting like this is some safe place for their ids, only to find out that once the poop hit the fan and the mods had to get into it, the real miscreants and bullies were banished. I don't miss them one bit. Case closed.
Reading whart's post brought back fond memories of how this site used to run. That's a bygone era. Too bad for us.
All the best,
Lets face it, if we only relied on paid professional reviews we would all own the same gear. I mean the same equipment manufactures are reviewed by the mags month after month.
At least here we get a chance to read about other audiophiles actual experience with equipment not mentioned in the paid reviews and perhaps we can actually afford. To me that is priceless.
I read here and whatsbestforum for user experiences, ideas, brand awareness, etc. Some good questions or topics are posed. I appreciate the insights of professionals such as the late almarg, and audio industry professional like the dealers. What is also interesting is marketing behavior from end users, whether or not they receive material compensation. There is particular good group of analog posters, whom I find very useful.
OWG is fine, but I do not miss the angry OWGs. Audiogon has been around before them, and I have been here long enough to see this kind thing flare up and burn out. It is not surprising some of them are gone now.. Best not to shine a light on them, positive or negative, though. Best to move on.
I for one think this forum has plenty of value stored in our collective memory/experiences. And can only remember one time I had a minor "battle of wits" with MC, but I never throw the first punch. And so it goes.
Just like I confine my reading to material that I really love, I also confine my reading in this forum to persons that have something to add.
BTW it is a long haul but at the moment I'm reading Edison a great biograpy of the man by Edmund Morris.
I've posted a couple times in lightweight opinional threads, the type of thing it feels would coax out more lightweight/low-fi members if indeed that's something the usership has an interest in here. Why? Because I haven't assed myself into listing the couple modest things I joined to sell.
As far as sensibilites go, Mahgister's is probably closest to mine, in his take care of what you can control approach before throwing money to the wolves.
My central experience on this forum has been to learn about ways fellows have advanced their systems. AC, amps, tweaks, etc. When a critical mass of posts rave positively or promote a particular issue, it clearly becomes something that should be considered. And I must say that I have yet to be mislead. At this point, the list is long.
I actually have no idea why I post here other than it's fun. I wish I had the high moral stance that I'm paying it forward offering help to those that know less than I do but I don't think that's it.
What's really happening is that I have five maybe six stories to to tell and I keep repeating myself over and over again. I try to be humorous and always get a thrill with a response from one my posts but that counters the whole pay it forward argument.
Truth is I'm here for the entertainment with the occasional nugget I can glean along the way.
The highlight of my experience was reaching out to MIllerCarbon and he opening up his house for a listening session, a meal and hobby talk. An experience that I hope others would offer.
The worst is when I get sucked into a pissing match with insults, name calling and schoolyard bullying. I'm working on being better.
+1 for Ozzy. I have gotten some excellent information on these forums and also made good friends. I have noticed with disappointment the last few years the number of trolls and bullies who have made a great hobby into a keyboard confrontation. This is a really enjoyable and sometimes expensive hobby and that should be our common ground . It takes no knowledge or skill to insult which is easy but on the other hand it costs nothing to provide help and information.
Too much of what goes on around here is rather alienating to me, excessive provocations, anger. Don't mind arguments about audio, but political posts in audio forum is not a reasonable post to my mind. Also, the personal attacks should not be acceptable regardless of the topic.
I most like experiential and contextual posts, those that have personal experience and place that in context are the most educational, informative. I try to base my posts on those two prerequisites.
Even on its WORST day, this forum is like working all day in a pair of steel-toed work boots, then coming home and slipping into a pair of comfortable slippers. It’s refreshing to visit a site where the major challenge of the day is how to best dispose of a participant’s disposable income.
I may have missed something(s) from the Golden Age of A’gon Forumdom, but my search for intelligent life often begins with this forum. I am rarely disappointed. Sure, there are those contributors who like to lie in wait, ready to ambush anyone who doesn’t agree with them. But dealing with serious character flaws is not our forte here. Just thoughts and considerations about all things related to music and the suspension of disbelief that we desire at home that we’re just listening to a stack of electronics connected to some boxes that move air, but we are indeed experiencing all the elements of a live performance.
I am taken with the genuine care, respect, consideration and advocacy contributors extend to others. Including those with “rookie” questions. The equivalent of a question on an exotic sports car forum like: “Hey, does anyone know the firing order on Testa Model S?” Sure, we get “punked” from time to time, but I see (and, feel) the presence of real gentlemen who wish others well, and willing to give a little of themselves in the pursuit.
Even when we go “off topic” I receive (free) input on a variety of matters that were well articulated, heartfelt, and honest. Sometimes, these are more intact, coherent, and relevant that the rants of those who get paid to write about such things for a living.
I have an expression: “The exodus of authenticity.” We’ve been trained to settle for substitutes for the genuine article. The average participant here has an antenna that is more sensitive than the “average” guy/gal on the street. We have an intimacy with reality – at least when it comes to the reproduction of music. I’m guessing this attribute has helped us in other phases of our lives?
One other thing I appreciate is that people present problems that they actually want solved. This may sound intuitive, but there are those “above our paygrades” that don’t want (major) problems solved – for a variety of reasons. Not here. I acknowledge, and celebrate the difference.
Forums, like these have more of an impact then we can imagine. They may be the only connection to humanity we interact with today. So, we need more audio forums. And, quilting forums. And, Corvair forums. And, ingrown toenail forums. We just might learn to like each other.
Keep those comments, questions, and, yes, challenges coming. You may be doing a lot more than just saving an audio forum from extinction.