Why Can't I Get The Right Sound? Krell pre + PSB's

I had a Rotel RC 1070 and an RB 1070 with a pair of B&W DM 602s3 Book shelf Speakers.
I liked the sound compaired to my Denon reciever and Klipsch KG 5.5's (LOL) First home stereo.

But the problem that sent me searching for a better system was not enough bass in certain demanding recordings. Also I felt there was not enough detail coming from the Preamp to sound at all real. I went looking for a sub and was talked into a bigger pair of floor standing speakers, amp, CD/DVD player and preamp.
I switched up everything for some equipment that I thought was going to fix everything. If I can remember a year back correctly, it was great in the sound room with the HiFi shop's CD. It must have been...

I bought a Krell KRC3 Pre amp, (used $1,300)
PSB Goldi speakers, (used $700)
Arcam P80 power amp (used $600)
DV78 DVD/CD Player (used$700)
all this used equipment was in outstanding condition and still is.
I also bought some Transparent audio cable for pre to amp and TARA Labs from DVD/CD Analog to Preamp.

Can anyone tell me why I can't seem to get the volume of bass and mid?
It sounds to me like I can hear everything in the recording (much more than ever before) but all the low and low mid frequencies are quieter than they should be.
Either that or the high mids and highs are turned up louder than normal. I was told by the retailer that my speaker placement was the problem.

Placement seemed to make sense because there are nice fat bass tones in areas outside the listening area.
Like, for example, if you stand up in front of the couch, there is far more bass than if you sit down. The end of the hall and the kitchen, the dining room and the bedroom. In fact all over in very little spots, there are tiny bass pockets, except where I want them.

So over the next - 9 MONTHS! - I moved the speakers around, and around,and around and around and...so on
Nearer the wall (like we all know) had more bass, but no mid and shrill highs; further in, nicer mids but no bass. I played with the width, toe in and distance from the back wall but nothing like what I feel I should be getting. Nothing like what I think I remember hearing when I got them. (I think you get the picture.)

Sad thing is, my old Rotel and B&W system had more impact! Not the clarity but much more Bass and deep, thick, mids. I guess they're using a lot of un-natural compression and boosting to acieve that but it sure had some thump ...
I miss that! No thump here )c: It this is the way music really sounds, then give me the compression and frequency boosting. (c;

Is the Preamp supposed to sound like that, or is it something to do with the speakers? or amp?
Anyone got any Ideas?

Thanks for your input...
Going crazy!

sorry for the long one (c;
You may want to make sure your speakers are not hooked up reverse polarity from each other.
Well, the fellows here will ask you about your room, the dimensions, and suggest that you need room treatments. That's one of the mantras here. Personally I have struggled with bass in my room too. I finally went with 2 subs. My family room is too stuffed to have room for treatments. The 2 subs have helped. I might also suggest that you have the mysterious "poor amplifier-speaker match", but the equipment you purchased sounded good to you at the dealers, so the amp-speaker match must be pretty good. It sounds like your room is the problem. One thing I've always believed, is that speakers will do more bass if they are on the long wall as opposed to the short wall. If your speakers are on one of the short walls that may be part of your problem. It's frustrating man, I know, especially when you had an un-resolving system before that loaded the room well but now you have a better resolving system and the sound doesn't load the room. Good luck.
I also support the theory that you may need to address the room first.

However, I think that your amp is underpowered for the Gold's. To get the most out of the PSB's bass performance, try a very high-powered amp.

I have to agree with Sufentanil. I really think that Arcam amp will struggle with the PSB's, which have an impedance which dips below 4 ohms in the low to mid-bass part of the frequency range. I think the Arcam can only deliver around 70 watts into 4 ohms and may not be able to get the most out of the large bass drivers. I think you need an amp capable of delivering at least 200 watts and decent current into a 4ohm impedance.

Boy you are obsessing way to much over bass. Very over rated in my opinion. Seriously. I was just reading a review of the new Martin Logans. 20K and they only go down to 60hz.

How about listening for a life like presentation where you can close your eyes and almost touch a performer?
Sounds_real, you make a great point. When that level of realism is achieved it must be magical. I haven't been able to get to that level of realism in my room. Kudos
I own a pair of PSB Goldis, not only do they dip to around 2.7 ohms in the midbass, the phase angle is also quite severe. I agree with Sufentanil and Hens. You need a more substantial amp to get the best out of these speakers, in addition to proper placement and room treatments.
yeah I thought I mentioned it before but maybe I overlooked it...

The reality is that maybe not bass guitar, Piano but explosions in movies, electronic/new age music-bass tones, keyboard bass and of course pipe organs do go that low and have that much bass. It's the only unreal and inconsistant sounding range of frequencies in my system.

I think that the folks suggesting more power may be right, I thought that myself. I adressed it with the vendor I purchased from in the first place and he assured me there was plenty of power in the very under rated arcam.

"It's a real continuous 65watts, more like a minimum" is what he said. As opposed to my old Rotel (130watts) was an exagerated power rating. The only difference I heard was the Rotel was more grainy and the Arcam more real and lifelike.

You know at one point I was thinking about bi-amping but I don't know how that is achieved with the Krell Pre I have.

Thanks for all your input so far. any one else got a comment I'm all ears. I should have asked here first, a year ago!

I wanted to ask, what amp/ pre you use with your PSB's?
If you want sound effects, try Cerwin Vega. You mention that you want thick bass. Accurate is better.
All the Bass haters:
I don't like overly boosted low frequencies either, but I think thats a matter of taste and not something any educated person would try to define as a good or bad thing.

However, if you go back and 'read' instead of jumping on the bass hating wagon you'll see, I was looking for a balance of bass, mid and highs. Like I said, it sounds like the low frequencies are turned down. I have heard the playback over nice Ayre, Wilson Audio and Musical Fidelity systems and the before mentioned elements in the recording were far more present. I also listened to the same recording over Grado Headphones and found them to be a bit too boomy in the low mid.

Don't lecture people on what you 'think' they mean, before you get your facts all ironed out.
Take a little time to realize we are all just the same as you, hearing things differently but we know what we think sounds good or bad. You don't have the only pair of perfect ears on the planet. Get your head out of your bum, you just sound dum. I'm sure people will like you more if you do (c;


Oh and thanks to the rest of you for all your help and emails.
Rich, a friend of mine whose opinions I trust said that the best pairing he's heard with the Gold's is an old Carver Lightspeed high-current amp. You should be able to get one at a reasonable price used. Just an option to consider.

The Gold's can produce some very prodigious bass. It's a very good full-range speaker, I might add. But you need the electronics to drive it properly to get teh full benefit from it. I once heard it with a big Krell amp and it was stunning.

Good luck,

The gear sounded good at the dealers shop and I am guessing that it is a treated enviorment, at least to some degree. I had the exact, EXACT same issue when I went from my first rig (NAD/NHT)to my second, I am on sytsem #3 now and heres what I learned. A big improvement came with a DAC-1, that whole thing about cleaning up jitter is for real and the entire freq. spectrum benefits. Placement, my current speakers have been zeroing in on a final position over the last few months and mid/bass was what needed dialing in. The biggest issue and FYI I am in a small room which is tough to dial in right off the bat with hardwood floores, room treatments brought the room from unlistenable to a level where I love to spend time there and can appreciate the sublte differences slight positional changes make. I happen to use the GIK stuff and they are local so I had the benifit of being able to visit there but plenty of resources exist to assist with room evaluation. You will not regret treating your listening space particularly the corners.I put corner busters in all the ceiling corners as well. It sounds like you are sitting in a null where the lower freqs cancel out, no amount of power fixes that. Once you treat the room if the rig is still missing some "meat" there are plenty of powerhouse amps that will kick your speakers in the ass. I went from an ATI to a Bryston 4BST years ago and heard more impact immediately. Best of luck, I feel your pain but once you have it sorted out, you will be happier that ever.