I find myself posting less and less for several reasons: among them are that many of the threads seem to repeat themselves endlessly at frequent intervals. Also questions like what is the best --- at X$ with nothing stated as to the rest of the system or the taste and room size of the poster are simply not capable of being answered. Debates like the current 5000+ post one on the general merits of MM VS MC get boring quickly, at least to me. Questions about how specific MMs compare to specific MCs are more capable of being answered helpfully as far as I can see. One essential thing about this hobby is to determine your own taste in equeptment; no matter what others may say it is what you like that is important. Sadly many either don't trust their own hearing or don't want to undergo the necessary learning curve and want to be told what is the best; this I take to be the reason why there is so much great gear on here at good prices. Debates on the merits of different artists or music types seem perticulary useless. You like it or you don't and no amount of discussion will make the smallest difference. I am indifferent to the Beatles myself; this may say something about me but nothing at all about them; ditto with Bob Dylan. I undoubtably like some that the next person hates, who cares? Unless we are perhaps to adopt Fortinbras [ misspelled] dictum that "Truly, to be great is to find a quarel in a straw".
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Shubert..., good question, but you really should get on more often. You're missing some really good pissing matches. Discretion restrains me from mentioning names or threads, but a couple of times, several members have practically called each other out.
That's a shame because it's only a hobby. Honestly, I enjoy the science and technology aspects and a number of members are very knowlegeable. I have exchanged a number of e-mails offline from time to time with a few members to learn more about the technical side of our hobby.
Glad to have you back. Cheers!
Hi. I am active since 2002. I think, there are still some interesting threads and posts but not many. And you are right. I just said that Pink Floyd's DSOTM is the most overrated album and that they cannot sing, and no-one reacted. Also, I started a thread about matching cartridge and speakers, and except one person and two imbiciles nobody seems to be interested. And when I say that if you want to have your cartridge perfectly aligned do it by ear, there is not much enthusiasm. And I think that's because many audiophiles have no patience or/and good hearing. But overall it is still not too bad.
I've wondered the same thing, there was an Audiogon thread on that topic a couple of years ago but I don't remember the title.
I think it's a combination of things, the internet and chat were newer and more exciting and it's possible some members feel they have already "spoken" their mind.
Then there's the economy, it's not been great for a long time but these last few years have been brutal. Not just the USA, but worldwide. Many people are fighting to stay alive financially and audio is one of those things that can go.
As for missing members, If it were possible to wave a magic wand and have them return I would do so and have a long wish list I would begin with.
Albert has a good, but sad point,In 2008 I was laid off a job I had for 16 years,,almost everyone of my friends lost their jobs or business.Took me close to 3 years to recover.Much of the time I did not have internet at home,,came close to not having a home!I think things changed in this country,and have not recovered yet.Other things take your free time and leave little time for chatting on the internet.Things have improved for me,but many have not recovered.Im sure as we age there are those who have health problems that make it hard or impossible to come here.God bless one and all,Ray
I do not blame the economy as some have done but redundancy as the killer of posting for long time posters and lurkers. So many posts as have been pointed out are not worth a response because they have been beaten to death. Is it PRAT - posting redundantly and tastelessly?
I only seem to post when I get a good straight line from another post. I really don't like audio all that much. I spent $10K on equipment to be an online comedian.
I've been on the site for a pretty long time. We've lost some members ( Lugnut comes to mind) due to death or illness; we also had some folks announce they were tired of the site and quit, and we've had some dudes just disappear. I think the hobby is transient for many folks, independent of music. One member I wonder about is Slappy, who made me laugh countless times...funny dude.
I for one am tired of seeing the same lame postings of which cable for my mega system. I specially like the ones that need us to make the five figure turntable suggestion. I usually like to see posting's that deal with the human element of the hobby. Such as the interaction between buyers and sellers.
So do power cables really make a difference?
You guys missed that one ... personally all the bickering and "know-it-all" mentality kills me. There is a ton of repetition but that seems inherent with forums. I have really appreciated the blurbs on new vinyl and CD releases and I have been turned onto some pretty good music. I wish the mood could stay a bit more positive. I hate being scolded THIS QUESTION WAS ALREADY ASKED IN 2001 Well Im asking it again if you dont like it, go read AVS. I have met some really cool people locally through the forum and picked up some classic gear. I draw the parallel of regulars in a bar some you like and some you despise but thats what makes it fun. Lots read, what a few have the courage to say.
Then again, maybe I should just shut up and eat my oats.
I think there is a cycle many go through, where things are initially new and exciting with endless possibilities...folks making cables, silver vs. copper vs. gold, cap upgrades, endless cable discussions, SS vs. tubes, isolation, vibration damping, constant upgrading, then after awhile folks are zeroing in on equipment that provides the type of sound they enjoy (for example, I have purchased 4 and sold 3 of my favorite preamp while deciding that nothing I have owned is better). Once you have gone through that cycle and, constructed a system you enjoy, the excitment of hanging out here to discuss upgrades, tweaks, etc. isn't the same as in the beginning. You move on to other pursuits and spend more time listening, maybe pay more attention to the music related posts, or to the humor many display on this site. I buy and sell less than before, although I have been hanging out more lately to learn about setting up a computer source. We certainly had/have some colorful, funny, knowledgeable older members, and many are thankfully still here, but I enjoy reading posts from the newer members too.
I've been around for almost 10 years, always trying to be respectful of others but sometimes the tempatation is too great (please witness recent recording vinyl digitally thread). Early on Audiogon, it seemed there was always a decent population of senior members who could snap everyone to attention and get them back on topic.
I miss the interplay between Audiofeil and Bartokfan. That was always good for a laugh. It seems now that many newbies consider themselves incapable of learning something from someone else....they almost get offended when you tell them to go listen to music and different setups. Brick and mortar dealers are almost extinct so I fear more and more topics like "I have $2500 dollars to spend and what should I buy" will continue to populate these pages.
I know the economy has been tough but I think there is more to the exodus and inflow. There are alot of people coming into the hobby today who are pretty sure anyone with a vinyl rig also believes the world is flat. They can't believe digital nasties are in fact nasties. With that being said, digital today is better than ever and continues to improve. The "Boom Tizz" isn't as agressive on vinyl so it must not be as revealing they believe. Oh well. I am glad though that the youngsters are here and some are learning.
.....I have been on this site for over ten years - and I personally got tired of the same people trying to start arguments and one wanted to actually drive and meet me.....I'm still waiting by the way. Others just post just to see their name ( the same member ALL the time ) and offer nothing to the question or to the poster and then I see they move on to the next post and do the same thing. I got tired of THEM...I get ticked at the ones that correct your spelling as I am not a good typist as well....again, the same member on that as well. I also lost interest here - when Audiogon started to charge a '' commission '' when you sold your item ...REALLY !!!!...isn't that what the add fee is for ???? I won't sell here anymore and I recall when adds were only $2.00 and I realize the site has grown and the cost of doing business always gets more expensive....and now you charge me a percentage of what I sold MY item for !!!!! I have gone back to working with dealers ......just my two cents
Hey....work.....I am on the road 95% of the time now trying to sell Hi End analytical instrumentation to a shrinking Big Pharma market. And universities and colleges cannot even get an instrument grant from our wonderful government. So even if you get a PhD in a science there are not many jobs; 20-30 applicants for that one position. Average salaries for a PhD in Chemistry was about $75,000.00 in 1990, now it stands at $75,000-$80,000.00 Zero increase in 20 years! And student loans running over $100,000.00; just great if you starting out. Not too many budding audiophiles with that load on their minds.
I do not think I have been in a high end audio store, just to shoot the breeze in 5-6 years??? I heard Magico make great speakers, but I have not even had the time to listen! I let my two subscriptions to Stereophile and Absolute Sound lapse. Even they became boring as hell. Same clap-trap issue after issue. I am surprised they stay in business. Would you ever see a review of Opeth (death metal) or Lerna Auerbach (who composes classical music NOW!): NO, just another review of some audiophile CD of Journey. When they reviewed a Jeff Beck CD ( and if anybody cares, I always thought the Yardbirds with Jeff Beck in the 60s where the most innovative group, not those idiot Beatles), they said, Jeff's new CD "is so creative." I purchased not because of their review, but because I happen to like Jeff. Played it once. It was god awful. I frisbeed it into the woods behind my house. What a crock of crap those re-viewers are. And self-delusion on my part that Jeff was as gifted in the 10s as he was in the 60s 70s and 80s.
Right at this moment, I have a pair of $20.00 Sony computer speakers hooked up. I am listening to a CD full of very crappy mp3 files of very obsure 60s garage bands. So at this minute, it really does not matter whether I am listening to my rig or not. I think I am listening 99% of the time on my car stereo anyway. Which ain't half bad 10 speaker HK that came with my little 2006 Bimmer (when I
was properous ;)))] with 200,000 miles on it now (cannot afford a new one). Don't even get me started how crappy BMW cars have become. Hey my mother-in-law just bought a Buick LaCrosse with the new 5.1 HK system....really not half bad. The stereo, not the car LOL LOL Thanks for reading!
I'm an Electrical Engineer.......
All cables sound the same, all amps sound the same, etc. etc.
And yet there are worthwhile discussions from time to time and I do enjoy the occasional flashes of humor.
PS: There are a few EEs here whose posts are always illuminating, valuable and enjoyable so no disrespect to them.
I think there are much better organized technical sites without the endless repetition seen here. After answering the XLR vs RCA interconnects question for the seven hundredth time it all begins to feel rather pointless. The other aspect here is the irrational way most things are presented as being exceptionally better than something else. I recall the poster who had gone through 11 DACs and, of course, the last one he had was the absolute best he had every heard and came highly recommended. Then on the next post in the same thread it turns out that same person had just SOLD that absolute best he had ever herd DAC....go figure, I mean how trustworthy is that opinion???
I'd suggest that some folks like Tvad, simply got wise and realized that any effort to help people here is a largely a waste of time, as the discussions quickly get buried and lost in a multitude of similar discussions and inevitably, next month one will see the exact same question raised again.
I will disagree with you about amps. Blind folded, I could tell the difference between the Spectral DMA180 with the DMC 30sl pre-amp and the Audio Research D115 with SP 8 pre-amp with the Avalon Radians 100% of the time with an audiophile recording. Did that comparison a zillion times. Now with a crappy CD full of MP3 files no I could not tell the difference.
But in the long run does it really matter; the only thing that matters: are you grooving to the music that you are listening? Right now I am listening to a killer version of "Hungry" by an obscure 60s garage band, the Raunch, that probably if the mp3 recording hits 12kHz, the recording is doing good. I am playing it on a $20.00 set of Sony computer speakers with 16 gauge cables which if it is lucky hits 80Hz low and 14KHz high with probably 5-10% distortion. Am I still grooving to it even though it is not being played through Audiophile equipment; you betcha!!!
I still lurk to help with music but even then I find so many folks don't really want the music so much as they just want great sounds on their newly acquired set up to validate their purchase. I pass on these inquiries as well as most equipment oriented posts - it is just pointless.
I will venture out on set up issues on occasions when I think it will be helpful. I doubt that I have posted over a dozen times in the past year.
The more I learn the less I have to say, or so it seems. Aside from that who wants to correspond with a newbee anyway. :-)
My point is, so many times when a discussion gets started someone comes in and announces that there are no differences between cables, amps, whatever. Then they say that there is no science behind these supposed differences so show me the proof. Then the discussion usually get nasty.
This gets old and tiresome after a while. Why do these people participate at all? I don't get it.
Maybe some old timers decided it just wasn't worth the trouble wading through the crap of what could otherwise have been a reasonable, sane conversation.
I have been a member since 2005, so am in the middle of the ten year cycle. Started with finding A'gon invaluable for all kinds of newbee questions and the members being extremely helpful on and off site to guide me through learning about tubes and other things. This also resulted in several members with whom I keep up a telephone relationships that have ripened into friendships.
It has been a great place to learn about new music, to buy/sell equipment, learn about new equipment, follow trends such as computer audio, so I am happy enough to wade through discussions that do not interest me.
I post when I think I can be helpful. I believe in kindness someone should step up to answer under the assumption that no question if sincere is stupi
(Real name Chris) Slappy and I trade email occasionally, although it's been at least a year since I last heard from him. When he was active at Audiogon I throughly enjoyed him. A good natured, honest, funny young guy with an obvious love for life.
Slappy loves photography as well as music so he sends me images of his latest work and I send him some of my commercial stuff.
Not mentioned here, but Carl Eberhart and I still send each other email over photography. Very bright guy who was very active here ten years ago.
For technical responses I guess Sean is the most missed on my list. Our last communication he was in Chicago area but he stopped responding about four or five years ago.
Maybe the answer is less complex and more simplistic in terms of common sense and wisdom. It has always been a common belief we grow in wisdom as we grow in years and perhaps in doing so they choose the wisdom of listening to good music over bull shit.
Too tired to race
Too wise to still chase
The simple wisdom to enjoy the rythem and pace.
Gammajo, Hey . . . I'm with you. To echo just a couple of the points you mentioned, at least five pieces of my current rig were purchased from honorable fellow A'gon members. That doesn't include the other buys and sells that are now history.
I have leaned a great deal from many of the folks here too. One kinda interesting tidbit related to a suggestion made here to call a gentleman by the name of Tom Tutay of Transition Audio Design. Tom is one of the best unkept unsecrets out there. About 6 months or so back, I leaned that I was overloading the outputs of my linestage because the input impedance of my subwoofer was too low. Tom made a custom built impedance buffer device that summed L/R channels, lowered the load presented to my LS and corrected an asymetrical loading issue (Main 1 to amp was XLR and Main 2 to sub was SE).
And so forth and so on....
Let's not despair!!
Love this site and have received some great knowledge and wisdom. Just need to keep it all in perspective and not put too much pressure on the site or others to meet some realistic or unrealistic expectation. I am a little surprised at some of the "negative" comments above. It's all about expectations and priorities. Properly prioritized and with expectations in check this site is still a fun, funny and informative site for me.
I owe the enjoyment of my current system, in total, to this site. I learned about the products, purchased the products, and finally learned about the matching of products here and through experience.
Post on Agoners!
I've been on since '03, and my usage have ebbed and flowed quite a bit, depending on what's going on at home. Our last child was born in 03 so I had lot of late nights reading the forums trying to find out what Audiophilia was all about, didn't post much then.
I spent a long time just reading, then started posting for advice about the new rage in '04 - '05 surround music (DVD-Audio & SACD), as the kids got more active, I got less so on the forums.
As they have grown, I've gotten a bit more time, and started posting again.
I use them for advice on gear and software. I love to change out, and try other gear to see how it sounds in my system. I use the classifieds quite a bit to buy and sell, for the reason given.
Also, I have a ton of respect for a lot of the Old-Timers:
Analog - You ask Albert Porter
New Music - check in and read the posts by Darkmobias
Good Digital and new gear - Grumpy and funny AudioFeil (Bill), very good and darkly colored advice here
BTW - I'm the guy who had 11 different DAC's, and sold the last one. I have a new one too (Wyred4Sound DAC2, still like the Bryston better though) don't worry Shardone I took a picture.
Who would you trust for opinions; someone who has tried many items, or someone who is stuck in 2004 with his one item?
I am primarily into vinyl now, with digital being a very distant second due to my preference, but it started here just the other way around. After so many people told me to try vinyl, I finally did and was blown away, but I keep trying to find comparable digital setup, but just can't quite get past the glare.
Anyway, some of us come and go with how busy we are.
Whoa...I just woke from a really long nap!
Yeah, Slappy's thread on the "big board with a rusty nail" had me laughing for weeks.
Around the time I stopped posting on here [5 years ago?] A'goN began clamping down on the type of threads and responses that were allowed. While I was a serious audiophile, I thoroughly enjoyed hijacking [often in cahoots with Jax2] threads into ridiculum.
My favorite A'goN memory was of seeing Albert Porter and Jax2 in wet underwear in a Las Vegas bathroom hotel.
Those were the days!
I've been a member since 2000. I probably have read much more than contributed in all these years. I need to get my almost daily fix of audiofilia to find out if I'm still alive or relevent in this crazy arena. Sure there's some redundant stuff but all you have to do is pass it by. I'm not as technologically literate as many here are, but I still enjoy listening to great music through a good old fashioned 2-channel system. It is a real pleasure logging on and checking in to see what is happening. God bless you all and enjoy!
Most people don't know how crazy your humor is Gunbei, my slant headed little cartoon friend.
Around the time I stopped posting on here [5 years ago?] A'goN began clamping down on the type of threads and responses that were allowed. While I was a serious audiophile, I thoroughly enjoyed hijacking [often in cahoots with Jax2] threads into ridiculum.
That was over Natalie Portman.
Marco, (Jax2) said I was too old to dream about having her for my own and I told him he and Michael Jackson were all washed up, even before it could began.
He was the one that threw the first bucket of cold water.....
(Now with the Gunbei BS humor starting, it really is beginning to feel like the old days.)
I'm still here (to a greatly reduced degree -- credit burn-out), and I still listen to plenty of 60's "garage" rock (including the more obscure, largely local type -- not what the respondents to your thread thought was garage-band music). Something which, to address your intermediate implied question, not many audiophiles seem to do (probably because it's often the essence of low-fi -- their loss).
I don't get on very often. I guess I have no opinions or my interest lies elsewhere.
People come and people go. But I think the answer lies in your situation.
Repetitive threads, inane debates over unanswerable questions, heavy handed moderation and just plain stupid questions get tiresome after the newness wears off.
Interesting to see some resurfacing.
Did want to make a point. There may be newer members who, while new to the site have some wisdom about stuff too. For example, I have been on Audiogon since 2005. But my journey with music started with studying piano in 1957 (54 years ago), then around 1960 being blown away by Leonard Bernstein live with the NY Philharmonic playing a Shubert concerto program in Avery Fisher Hall.
As a result my brother, an eventual electrical engineer, and I (mainly the listening tester)took the guts out of an old Strongberg Carlson console and replaced with Heath Kit and other hand built parts, resulting in a kick ass stereo that the whole family enjoyed.
After many years with classical and my brothers' 50's rock/pop collection, my first 45 purchase was Little Eva "Locomotion". Then in college, friends started returning from Vietnam with exotic brands such as Sansui and the race was on for absolute sound.
How many old timers would agree with these tenets gleaned from 50 years of experience: Trust your own ears but educate them -enjoy live music often. Listen to as many systems as you can in other people's homes, you will be humbled at the many ways to achieve good sound and make great friends. Well reproduced music is worth the investment as it can be one of the deepest and most enduring pleasures of life, better than cars and other toys, only exceeded by friendships. Don't be afraid to experiment, even moving a speaker an inch can make a difference, yet the art is to not become obsessive. Keep your contacts clean and your relationship with other audiofiles cleaner. Once an awhile take a break of a year or more from equipment changes and dur
Has it really been twelve years? Amazing. I joined in Feb of 2000, and have been making myself obnoxious, and gotten heat for my posts about the importance of "the live music standard" ever since. I bring this up not to be self-serving, but because it may go to the OP's question.
I have enjoyed this site and this community immensely, and continue to do so. The level of intelligence, knowledge, wit, and generosity of many here is truly amazing and inspiring. I agree that for many of the previously active members the rehashing of the same questions and comments time and time again is tiresome. What I find to be even more important is how
many of the newer (younger?) audiophiles express opinions, and make
observations about audio matters as if they were making an observation
never before made by anyone. They have very little knowledge nor
respect for the history of the hobby. Before there was Audiogon, there was the work of folks like JGH, HP, JN, PHD, JM, and others. I know it is
in vogue to bash audio critics, but these folks were instrumental in creating
a vocabulary for discussing what we do on this site. Perhaps even more
importantly, there was always a very strong sense that it was the music
that mattered. Observations about sound was, more times than not, tied to
intelligent observations about the music; and with actual examples of recordings to boot. Imagine that!
I think this relates to the OP's question because there is only so much we
can say about the "audio" portion of this hobby that hasn't been said a
thousand times before. Music? That's a different matter. It is an endless
font of new discovery. The emphasis should always be the music. That is
what excites many audiophiles the most.
Remember the surveys of great concert halls, and pipe organs of the world in TAS? The very comprehensive articles on the range of the instruments of the orchestra? The interviews with folks like Bill Porter?
Man, I'm showing my age.
Gammajo, very well said; I agree with every one of your points.
Mrtennis, I think that the answer to your first two questions is yes; although speaking for myself, choosing not to participate in a thread is not necessarily an indication of a lack of interest. As far as which threads might be of interest to older members, there are many. But as already mentioned, how many more debates about wether cables or fuses make a difference do we need? Or about wether Kind Of Blue is one of the greatest jazz records ever?