2. speakers
  3. 135863-9818

Why Aren't More Speaker Designers Building Augmented Widebanders?

Over the years I've owned a number of different speakers - KLH, Cerwin Vega, Polk, Opera Audio, Ars Aures, and Merlin VSM. One thing they all had in common was a crossover point in the 2000 hz (+ or -) range. I've read reviews of speakers where the reviewer claimed to be able to hear the crossover point, manifested as some sort of discontinuity. I've never heard that. My Merlin VSM's for example sounded completely seamless. Yet my new Bache Audio Metro 001 speakers, with a single wideband driver covering the range of 400 hz to 10,000 hz, augmented by a woofer and a super tweeter, sounds different from all of these other speakers. The midrange of the Bache 001's is cleaner, more coherent, more natural than I have heard before. Music flows from the speakers in a more relaxed manner, and subjectively dynamic range is greater, with no etch or brightness, and no loss of resolution compared with the Merlins. I have to conclude that Bache's design has an inherent advantage over more traditional designs with a crossover point or points in the midrange frequencies. I wonder why more speaker designers haven't tried this approach?
128x128cellcbern
prof
3,435 posts
 
I get the theoretical appeal of a speaker using a wideband driver - theoretical coherency and all that.

But in practice, I don't really find speakers divide up that way in terms of coherence.   I find plenty of 2, 3, 4-way speakers to be quite coherent.

For instance, a couple of Thiel models I own as as coherent in the mids/treble and down as any speaker of my acquaintance.  I can come beck home from listening to tracks on my pal's electrostatic speaker and hear no loss of coherence through my speakers.

(And I went from Quad ESL 63s to Von Schweikert box speakers and heard virtually no loss in coherency).



bache's avatar
bache
502 posts
 
If anybody who interested to listen widebands drivers coherence in different configuration just welcome in Brooklyn listening room
s 
bache's avatar
bache
502 posts
 
The short history to design my speakers based on wide( full range )
First step-------------One driver no crossover
Second step- Bache audio-001 remove whizzer core ( i realize after measurement and listening is impossible to made flat response just to add supertweeter and leave whizzer is on) and add active Sub, crossing wideband with 100 HZ crosspoint
Third step-- I realize that wideband get poor ability to work midbass region 100-500 HZ ( baffle step) , Some Disigner to avoid this made very wide baffle (voxativ) I dont understand the ZU lover folks. The sound ( especially male vocal, lowest piano and
punch sound thinner than real , http://bacheaudio.com/bache-audio-00...tereotimes-com 
We made Bache audio-002 to add separate midbass driver with active build in amps . But for all another speakers based on wideband with no built in amps, we have to add woofer with crosspoint 500-700 HZ ( Metro-001, Tribeca-001 etc)

Conclusion-- Wideband driver get good ability just to work like midrange with extended freguancy response, and get choice to implement not regular dome tweeter , but supertweeter.
cellcbern's avatar
cellcbern OP
61 posts
 
My Bache Audio Metro 001’s are now substantially broken in, and my enthusiasm for them continues to grow. The imaging and sound staging now surpasses what I enjoyed with the Merlin VSM’s, and the midrange, which has opened up since I took delivery of the speakers, is even more clear, tonally dense, and articulate than when I started playing them. While the VSM’s BAM produced bass response down to 35hz, the bass from the Metro-001’s eight inch woofer goes lower, is more tactile, and can be felt as well as heard.  The Heil air motion transformer, used above 10,000 hz gives up little if anything to the Esotar in the VSM. 

I am not qualified to debate the technicalities of speaker design, but I have 40+ years of high end audiophile experience and fairly educated ears. I used the word "coherence" at the start of this thread but perhaps that term is inadequate to describe what I am hearing. To my ears the Metro-001s sound more relaxed, natural, and "all of a piece" than any non-wideband speaker I have heard, including every Thiel loudspeaker I have heard, and I have heard many of the models.
mozartfan
2,143 posts
 
seamless. Yet my new Bache Audio Metro 001 speakers, with a single wideband driver covering the range of 400 hz to 10,000 hz, augmented by a woofer and a super tweeter, sounds different from all of these other speakers. The midrange of the Bache 001's is cleaner, more coherent, more natural than I have heard before. Music flows from the speakers in a more relaxed manner, and subjectively dynamic range is greater, with no etch or brightness, and no loss of resolution compared with the Merlins. I have to conclude that Bache's design has an inherent advantage over more traditional designs with a crossover point or points in the midrange frequencies. I wonder why more speaker designers haven't tried this approach?
cellcbern05-06-2018 9:47am

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes sir, 
This is exactly my very same experience of my wide band, assisted with midwoofers/+ tweeter.

Magical and near perfection,,,

Oh sorry to step on the old cliche
**No speaker is perfect**
So sorry,, let me rephrase the Iconic **most Holy* Dogma , nO speaker is perfection..
OK
How s this
*Near perfect as I ever wanta  speaker to sound**. There, not perfectperfect, But as near as I ever hoped.

More to discover