Why are these speakers so bright but others not?


I'm in the process of upgrading my 10 year old system. It currently consists of:

Arcam FMJ CD23
VPI HW 19jr./Audioquest PT6/Sumiko BPS
Audible Illusions Mod 3 pre
OCM 500
Monster Sigma Retro Gold interconnects and speaker cable
Monster AVS 2000/HTPS 7000 power conditioners
Martin Logan Odyssey speakers

I previously had PSB Stratus Gold's and had finally tuned and tweaked my system so that it was reasonably balanced in my room (approx 20 X 13.5 X 7.5, glass on one side with only partial treatment). I had the opportunity to borrow and purchase equipment from work with mixed results.

ML Odyssey - these worked great so I bought these and am sticking with them. Bass is still uneven and not as extended as the PSB's though.

Revel Ultima Studio - very bass lean and tinny

Magnepan 3.6R - edgy and bright. way too big for my room anyway so I'm selling these.

What gives? Why are two speakers so well suited to the room and too very highly regarded speakers not?

I'm going to borrow an amp from work to see if that changes the situation since I know some of these speaks are tough to drive. Any more ideas?
donato

Showing 2 responses by jafox

Hello,

It looks like your system is a bit bottom heavy....in this I mean that you have focused much attention on the speakers and yet a major upgrade to your phono or CD setups and perhaps even more so, the preamp, would bring far more refinements than trying $4k+ speakers in your system.

I heard the AI Mod 3 years ago and it was not bright at all. In fact, it was a bit too laid back for me compared to the ARC LS5, CJ Premier10, Sonic Frontier SFL2 and CAT preamps I auditioned at the time. I would think the AI is a good fit if your system is typically on the bright side. But the AI is also a subtractive product when it comes to resolution.

Another link in your system that is key is the preamp to amp cable. Something like a Cardas Golden Cross could do wonders for you to bring on more warmth and remove some of the edgy brightness and fatigue.

I understand how Magnepans would be considered bright in many systems. I have always needed to use at least a 1 ohm resistor in the tweeter attentuator for the 3.3s and/or 3.5s and my system was not bright at all. My guess is that Magnepan designed this to have their speakers work in a wide variety of systems. If you still have the 3.6s, you should try 1, 2 and 3 ohm resistors at the attenuator terminals. I use BAT 31SE, AesthetixIo, Manley DAC and Wolcott electronics....none of which are bright at all and yet I use 3 ohm attenuators.

My room is nearly identical to yours so I have the same placement limitations. The 3.5s work incredibly well now that I have focused much attention to upstream components.

From what you have written here, you should check out a great deal on a pair of Vendersteen 2 sigs or the 3A. Each of these are much less than the other speakers you have tried and the extra money spent in other areas would be of far greater benefit. But I think speakers like the Maggies will reveal much of the other "problems" upstream.

Hope I have given you some ideas to consider.

John
Donato,

You can get 10w 1-ohm power resistors at any electronics supply shop or RadioShack. You might even find 2-ohm and 3-ohm resistors. If you can only find 1-ohm resistors, you can always solder 2 in series to have 2 ohms, 3 in series to have 3 ohms, etc. This is not an "audiophile pure technique" here, but it will tame the top end to bring the Maggie sound to a natural state. Start with 1 ohm and go from there until the tonal balance is to your liking. And because these resistors have thick leads, you can bend the leads 1-2 times and just insert these into the attentuator terminals locking them tighly with the hex screws. This process has worked well for me for many years so I have not bothered to find audiophile grade power resistors here.

Concerning speaker cables, this is one area I have tried many different models/brands, and still I have yet to hear significant improvements from swapping like I do in other links of the system. Perhaps with the latest changes in my system, I should try this once again. But my gut feeling is that the Monster cable will be just fine to compare the speakers you have. But of course try to use the same cables. You can get Monster Xterminators which are a double banana with spade lugs on the end. Again, RadioShack has virtually the same product which I think is $4-5. Pickup a couple of these so you can use your spaded speaker cables. Try this and if things start to go in the right direction, then at least with the Maggies, you will be ready to consider an amp upgrade. But first, I still suggest that you borrow a Cardas Golden Cross interconnect and use this between the ModAI and your amp. This will be a huge change in tonality for you.

I find the hybrid Counterpoint NPS400 to be the best value before you pay a lot for Wolcott and VTL amps. High power ARC amps are just too expensive and anything under 200w is simply not going to work with Maggie 3 series speakers. After hearing tube amps with Maggies, there's no going back to solid state. However, I have not heard Plinius nor Pass nor Rowlands which many users claim to have tube-like qualities. But all of these are so expensive too. Just be prepared to pay a lot for an amp if you fall for the Maggies. Somehow I still think Vandys would be a good solution here.

John