Dunlavy speakers were tuned by Mr. Dunlavy to +/- 2.5 db.
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I can hand tune the level controls on my Acoustic Response 707’s They say the tweeter and mid/range level controls allow for perfect matching..
Another thing....I have the carpeted version that is carpeted on the baffle which helps minimize diffraction. More speakers should have carpet, charcoal grey preferably.
Danny at GR builds a speakers that "measures good" His speakers with his servo bass system, are pretty "tunable".
LS9s are just that, with the servo bass. Get this, all "Open Baffle". The only problem with the OB Monitor section is the room is the box, for the most part. I love the look though, but they are not inexpensive.
I like a Hybrid linesourse that is dipole but not open baffle. The only production speaker that is still around, but not made anymore was a VMPS RM50. That I liked. The old Infinity RS dipole ribbon units were pretty (in theory) tunable. I never could get them right and my XO skills only went so far back then
The baffle depth on my current concoction of speakers is 22" so the front drivers and back drivers are TIMED.
The rear driver section is a reflective point source made up of 2 CLOCKABLE drivers, one from 300 hz-6.9 khz, the other tweet from 6.9-26 khz, both have off/on selection via L Pad. Again tunable!!
The front baffle is a Hybrid line source with 50" of ribbon and a single HUGE true ribbon for the TWEET. Again L Pads, and tunable
3 columns per side.
20-100 hz OB servo bass columns (digital control) 20x18x20 100 lb ea
100-300 hz MB Columns OXO DSP controlled 12x14x60 130 lb ea
300-25 Khz columns passive XO HDF baffles 12x22(now)x72 400 lb ea.
My 300 hz and down mini columns pics are here on AG, primer only. Its a GR servo with MB Mini columns and OXO. Full blown DSP control from 300hz (or whatever you choose). The MB are SAT modules.
Stack and Test. 3 modules per side for 9 foot lids, or a single column on their side for center/single bass. Again tunable!!
All kinds of mechanical tuning techniques... Torque to tone!!!! The front baffle!
I use tunable BASS bins with Passive Radiators and Mortite putty to tune the dampening, to a nats ass, and couple Subs to MB, MB to Mids. Very cool way of doing it. 100% mechanical not digital.. VERY room, amp and speaker position specific.
They are here, you just got to learn how to do it yourself, make it yourself and SHARE what YOU learned.. If you got goodies, then give um up...
Think stethoscope, while your tightening the drivers down to the front baffle. Make sure it all is the same tone. Don't over tighten,don't undertighten. Generate a tone burst with a rubber mallet if you want, or tone generator. I've done it a few times with columns. BE CAREFUL with the ears, and stethoscopes. TAKE care of the ears, not to loud...
Kenjit, I guess you never tried actives.
For the life of me I cannot figure why not.
A500’s at home for 45 day trial, $30.
You are either:
Or, of course, all of the above.
I forgot homeless.
Actually, to answer your brilliant question, it is because hands lack sufficient hearing ability to "tune" anything.
If you mean hand in combo with ear it's like asking "why don't they do space launches with pencil and paper?"
It’s not a riddle, it’s the economies of scale. The cost to retool and take away resources that make the product has to be passed on to the buyer; and that cost is prohibitive. Not only that, there has to be an intangible benefit, like publicity. That’s why, for example, only rich rockstars can go to Gibson and get a custom instrument. You can too, just be prepared to pay multiple times the cost if the company believes there’s an upside to serving you.
As for speakers, the demand is just not there.
When I posted the topic Speaker Speaker Shootout wayyy back in 2001/2202, most likely the longest running thread in Agon's history,, I came away with Seas as my choice.
Seas Thors have proven their worth..The other day i noted one speaker was weak,, Richard Gray tested the xover, =Good,, tested tweet, good, but when I called madisound, Cindy was kind enough to help me resolve the riddle.
Cindy said in her 20 yrs at Madisound, only oncea xover went *bad*, so she suggest i ck the Millennium on the weak speaker,,sure enough, no low mids,, only tinny highs,, , Which all my 10 YT vids posted here on Agon, have this weak tweeter,,
When Richard opened the 2 chambers,, the foam layer was near *dust form* disintergrated.
Replacement coils arrived and wow, the new diaphrams have a complete foam layer + *O* ri9ng, that may not have been on the original tweeter.
so thats that. Next 2 of the midwoofers will need new surrounds, my cat clawed 2, nearly 10 yrs ago,, tahts on the way..
Adam over at Madisound helped me on the new Mundorf Supreme xovers , those will arrive next week
So we will get to hear the Thors as a new-ed speaker.
Should be interesting and will upload a YT vid and post ina topic.
This YT vid will be along with
1) Richard Gray;'s mod of the Jadis DPL, swaped a 12AX7 (too juch gain) for a 12AU7, eliminated the pair of M SEVO OIl .47 capacitor, rana piece of wire.
2) New navships interconnects with both silver coated RCA's vs pure copper RCA/s vs another silver coated RCA tips.
all 3 have the lock mechanism, which i need as the Cayin cd player has solid copper posts and are too small for a tight fit on a regular RCA interconnect to makea good connection. ..
So with all these upgardes/mods,, will not be so simple to say what mod/upgarde is doing what to the resolution.
stay tuned,,, should be end of next week,,,oh year, to answer OP
I agree, speakers should have xovers outside the cabinets' so mods/upgardes can be easily made.
So here I prefer kits from Madisound vs commercialized varities.
Here is another one K, Phase plug shapes, phase plug lengths.
I use a 12" WCF with adjustable length phase plugs. The 12" are MB drivers. It's more for secondary wave diversion from the cone surface.
A distortion eliminator so to speak. I used a pretty dense hardwood. BUT all hand shaped, actually pretty fun. Taller with heavy taper for the higher frequency, shorter flater PP for the lower frequency.
They look pretty ugly with phase plugs, but they sure work well.
The WCF cone material is permeable also (can see through it). On the principal of shark skin, kinda.. Very light, fast and strong.
If, by "hand tuned", you mean matched drivers with crossover components selected to meet the design (and of course, run in after assembly, and then measured/documented), they do exist.
I can’t speak to who does this as I haven’t followed this all that closely. We don’t do speakers, but I’d expect small, specialist companies in the Galibier category to pay this level of attention to detail. Call me an optimist ;-)
Just don’t expect to find them at Best Buy ;-)
Matching drivers is nice (obviously running them in first), but logging their characteristics is even better, in the event of a driver needing replacement.
It sounds as if you’re not looking at horns/high efficiency, otherwise I might be able to point you to some likely candidates.
... Thom @ Galibier Design
Yeah, in 2201 most are still wondering Why anyone would waste time with archaic means of sound reproduction...
"What?! Why would any sane life-form Not have implants?! How....primitive...."
"Speaker Shootout?! Sounds dangerous....is a 'speaker' a weapon of some sort? "Speaker....who 'talks' anymore, anyway.....?"
thom_at_galibier_design691 posts08-20-2020 11:00pmIf, by "hand tuned", you mean matched drivers with crossover
Very rare indeed. How do you "match the crossover"?
I’ve seen it done. The person matched the band pass with hand built inductors, he could peel back, to within .05%. Do you do that? Some do. I have.
It’s one thing to match drivers per batch, but top to bottom left to right and THEN "Match the crossover". FEW if any do...
It is even rarer, for drivers to be broke in, sorted L/R, Top/Bottom, and then tune the bass and band pass via XO after assembly. Actually set and listen to music being played. RARE, indeed.
It’s VERY time consuming. I have a pair built that way, right now along with QUITE a few hand tuned tricks..
WHO is gonna pay for it, when you can’t even get a contribution to the forum..
The forum can be quite enlightening if there is participation. BUT there are a few that love to play TOO much, some WAY too much. :-)
I have seen the way he interacts with speaker manufacturers and emailed them about it (more than one). Absolutely a customer from hell.
Put another way, if you designed and built speakers and knew of him beforehand what you know of him now, would you sell to him? I know I would not. There is no sale worth that.
I do know of a loudspeaker manufacturer who hand tunes every single speaker that comes out of his factory.
It is very time consuming to do so using a traditional crossover, one method is to have multiple variable resistors connected in parallel to those in the circuit to lower resistance, with leads out of the port in order to tune the crossover.
Then when correct values for final tune are discovered, the crossover is removed and the correct value resistors are added, and crossover replaced.
This manufacturer now employs a tuning bay in the back of all of his current generation speakers. Brass screws are used to screw through the board the crossover is mounted on, which pass through to the outside of the back of the cabinet. Variable resistors are connected using alligator clips to the brass screws, after run in the variable resistors (pots) are dialed in with the use of Clio measurement system to match the speakers to an in house standard. A gasket is used between the crossover board and the external tuning port cut into the back wall of the speaker.
Not often, sometimes a capacitor is also added in parallel with the tuning resistor. By adding the resistors in parallel, resistance is actually lowered, this is in the shunting circuits of the crossover, so it allows more energy to return to ground.
This is just one manufacturer that I know of, I assume there are others who also have taken measures to final tune, or hand tune as you call it.
You'll just have to go find the others who take meticulous care of the products they produce.
If there is one, I dare say there are many!
Every Vandersteen speaker goes into the chamber to get some degree of “ tuning “
Those with a systems engineering and test background will understand verticality of test and effective specification, along with manufacturing tolerances and tolerance stack up will know tweaking a circuit is sometimes essential. Vandersteen use a science and listening based approach, Since 1977.
Enjoy the music :-)