Why are the vocals on some records hidden behind the music on my system?


Help! I am new to this forum, but have been into audio for over 45 years and have never had this problem before. I was lucky enough to come into some money and decided to use some of it to up grade my system for the first time in almost 30 yrs. The system consists of McIntosh MC-402, McIntosh C-100, McIntosh MCD-500, VPI HW19 MKIII, Soundsmith Aida, Furutech Ag-12 phono cable, Furutech silver head shell wires, Furutech interconnects and Furutech speaker cables (yes I like Furutech) and Raidho XT-3 speakers. Now on some albums the vocals are buried behind the music and you have a really hard time hearing the singer? Not all albums are voiced in this manner but enough that it is bothersome. I have a large dedicated man room (24 x 27) with minimum treatment. CDs sound just fine so I feel that it is with the phono preamp in the C-100? I have moved the speakers 100s of times and have them at 5' 8" apart and 8' 1" to the focal point and the soundstage is good and the vocals are better, but you still have to really listen hard to hear certain vocals on some albums. Most of my albums are 30 to 50 years old and have been cleaned with a sonic cleaner (best thing ever imho). Even some of my new heavy vinyl has this problem.
scooby2do

Showing 6 responses by cleeds

scooby2do
The cart. is new with only 100-150 hours on it and I used a Pro-ject cart. alignment tool
I suspect the alignment is off, and suggest you use a gauge which aligns the actual stylus and cantilever using a mirror, such as the WallyTractor.

scooby2do
the Pro-ject does use a mirror as part of the alignment process
But that's for azimuth, correct? Something like a WallyTractor uses a mirror to set tangency and actually aligns the cantilever itself.

I could be mistaken about the Pro-ject gauge, so I'd appreciate your clarification. 

scooby2do
I just finished a 2 1/2 hr re-alingment of the cart.
Unless you are working with a microscope, an alignment should not take two hours or more. How did you perform the alignment? Did you align the cartridge, or did you align the stylus/cantilever? If the former, it’s extremely likely that your alignment is off, ime. That’s why I recommended a gauge that uses a mirror for overhang and tangency.
scooby2do
...  the alignment itself didn't take 2 1/2 hrs but making adjustments to the vta is a change an listen to see if it is better or worse then doing that over an over until you find what you feel is the best ...
It sounds like you're relying on intuition and feeling here. While I think listening is a critical part of phono cartridge setup, you're chasing your tail if you don't start with measurements, imo. For VTA, that means using a VTA alignment gauge. For overhang and tangency it means using a mirrored alignment gauge that aligns the actual cantilever, rather than the cartridge body. There are so many variables in phono cartridge setup that if you rely on crude tools and listening alone, achieving proper alignment is very much a hit-or-miss proposition. And while it's difficult to diagnose a problem such as yours remotely, it sure sounds like a setup problem to me.

scooby2do
well once again I fixated on the wrong point for setting vta. While trying to find 90 degrees using the tone arm (which showed no improvement) I figured out that it is the head shell that is to be used as the reference point!
You seem to be confused about phono cartridge alignment. First, you do not want a 90 degree VTA. VTA should typically be in the range of about 15 to 20 degrees. SRA should be in the 90 degree range. Perhaps you are confusing the two.

In any event, proper phono cartridge alignment doesn’t rely on the headshell as a reference point, but the cantilever (and stylus) itself. Your failure to recognize this goes a long way towards explaining the trouble you’re having with setup.
scooby2do 0cleeds- read the article above provided by willewonka from soundsmith. It states that they think you should start with the tone arm is to be placed parallel to the record surface. Is that not 90 degrees? ... I have no problem attempting a different method if it can give me better results
I'm familiar with phono cartridge set up so I'm sorry, but you're confused. A parallel arm will not give you a 90-degree VTA. It should result in your VTA being around 15 to 20 degrees.

I've previously explained what I think is the best approach to phono cartridge alignment. Start with tools that align the actual cantilever/stylus, such as the Mint or WallyTractor devices. Use a VTA gauge to actually measure the VTA. Then, make final adjustments by ear.