Who was your first

Duke Ellington
Fats Waller
later Miles Davis
Dizzie Gillespie

True of course, Ferrari, I was thinking more of the hard core crowd of those times. I heard Mulligan live in Paris many years ago, collected LPs of all the names you have mentioned, but even in my early years I found their music "intellectual and contrived" in comparison to what Parker, Miles, Coltrane etc.etc had to offer, I found their music gutsier, dirtier. I loved Chet, but he never shook me down to my guts or made me grin as sometimes Dizzy could. It's all personal taste of course. The very origin of jazz however, if I am informed right and no matter to what happened to this strand of music later, is black after all.

Mapman
Your examples are not Jazz in its strict sense and what are "fine and more accessible elements" of Jazz? To me, Jazz is essentially "black music" and for sociological reasons alone, think of Mingus, Parker, Miles, it is not necessarily intended to sound "fine" but rather "dirty" and is essentially, when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, a musical answer to the social ostracism suffered by the Afro-American community in the heyday of Jazz. Black musicians will tell you, that later this music was "stolen" from them by and became mainstream. Just to add to what Cwlondon said above.

Goldeneraguy, it makes sense what you say of course. Besides this is all purely personal. I don't pretend to be an expert. All I am recounting is the fact, that today, now quite old, I still am moved by the music of those names I mentioned, while the likes of Baker or Mulligan et al don't really get me involved. It is "interesting" for me, but that's it. I does not get below skin level.But this is off-topic anyway. So my apologies and I'll shut up.

Newbee, nice of you to chime in. In a sense, and I mean this with a touch of malice, you may be right. Never thought of Chet's music this way. His audience? I wouldn't really know. But our "intellectuals" in Europe, especially those who flirted with more than just weed, loved him. Speaking of dinner jazz...do you know Carla Bleys *Dinner Music" ? Hilarious!
Cheers,
Detlof

Hm, Rockvirgo, I would fully agree with your following sentence, which I incidentally find very well put, that "assigning racial labels to individuals or groups in an attempt to somehow explain, define or symbolically organize their behavior is the absurdity of racism itself." But please do not forget, that I was alluding to a time, which incidentally I am still acutely aware of, but which lies now almost 50 to 60 years behind us. Every generation interprets history, especially cultural history according to its own needs and values and what you rightly call cultural myopia now, was then within the very cradle of modern jazz seen, lived, interpreted and understood quite differently. And you're not quite right I feel, though Beethoven would be Beethoven wherever he lived and worked, his music would be not the same, had he composed in London or St.Petersburg and not in Vienna. Just as much as Handel's compositions do - at least in part - reflect the needs and tastes of the London society of his time.
My turntable is black and sounds black if thus fed by the way. (;

"So in the final analysis good ole american jazz is a multi-cultural affair that has withstood all the obstacles and has become our true art form to enjoy."

..and so it has become and I don't think your view is skewed at all, but as I mentioned, the beginnings were difficult and much of the mood of the music in those years expressed those difficulties very clearly. There were more musicians than Brubeck who tried to bridge the gap, win trust, respect and recognition, but it took time.

That was beautiful Newbee! Thanks for taking the time and effort.