I use differential noise reducing component before my eqitech 2q. Experimenting confirmed this works best in my system. Am curious to try filtering the grounding after reading about shunyata ground filter used in the absolute sound ref system. Has anyone experience with the ground filter?
Who uses power conditioning?
I’m curious how many folks use some sort of power conditioning, or are you drawing the power from the wall “as is”?
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+1 cohsystms: I've only tried the entry level offering (Electraclear), and it's really an outstanding product. Especially for the price ($60.00 each here on Audiogon). Bill is an absolute delight to talk with on the phone, and I look forward to auditioning some of his more sophisticated products in the future. |
The Inakustik Power Station AC-3500P and LS-4004 Air Speaker cable just might be the end of your Cable/Power Conditioner search! Contrary to the normal procedure here at The Sound Advocate, I’ve decided to give our readers a glimpse of 2 extraordinary products that have recently made an entry into my home audio system through the courtesy of Mr. Robert Neill, president of worldwidewholesalers.com. Although testing of the Inakustic AC-3500 Reference Power Station and their top of the line Reference LS-4004 Air Speaker Cables are still in their initial stages, both of these products have inaugurated themselves with some extraordinary listening impressions; conclusive enough to warrant this commentary. Read More>>> |
@steakster So true, so true. After trying it out and going back to using it as a stand alone in the previous setting, I spent a all this time just listening to what it can do. It seems like new life has been breathed into what I already thought couldn't get any better. Now I'm even more curious to see if Gilbert's newer version can sound better. All the best, Nonoise |
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@steakster I just tried out your scenario and it wasn't even close. With the Blue Circle Thingee on a different line that my computer uses, there was none of the magic that it evinces when on the same line as my stereo. That "lit up from within" quality is A.W.O.L. as well as the strength, impact and effortlessness that live music has. It's not so much as an increase in the noise floor as it's still pretty much a black background but the aforementioned qualities are simply gone. Gone is the air, decay, in the room presence, and again, for lack of a better descriptive, that effortless strength. For those with any technical expertise, here's a few shots from the TLP Audio page that shows what Gilbert built which replaces his previous work: http://www.tlp-audio.com/powerConditioners2.php If you scroll down you'll see what's inside and maybe someone can chime in as to the effectiveness of the design and whether simpler (as it appears to look) is better when using better quality components. All the best, Nonoise |
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Well, that didn't take long. That big step up again proved too much of a good thing. Lot's of attack and leading edge at the expense of body and weight. It's strange how going from 12' of PC (two 6' lengths with a power box in the middle) to a single 6' PC straight into the wall resulted in too much filtration. I've been informed that Gilbert no longer runs Blue Circle and now works for another company but he did develop a newer line of conditioners that are sold at TLP Audio with better filtering and features at not too dear a price. I may try one of the three models but am hesitant about their being inline instead of stand alone (based on past experience). There is, however, testimonial from someone with a Gryphon amp and preamp who loves the sound he's getting from them so it might be worth a try. All the best, Nonoise |
Experimenting further, I moved the Blue Circle Thingee from the Cullen Cable power box (a square strip) directly to an unused outlet which is situated about 8' from the one that my integrated and SACD player occupy, but shares the same line. That made an even bigger difference, cutting down the 12' total length (outlet to Cullen Cable box and the Thingee with a 6' PC) in half. It appears that the closer the Thingee is to the source, the better the filtering and conditioning. It's almost as big a step in improvement as first inserting it the older way. All the best, Nonoise |
Fantastic David. When treating the HD cables, start with both termination pins of the grounding cable, and the copper strip of the AGB. Brush the paste on the fo.Q, a light but full coating. Then wrap the grounding cable terminations tightly with the tape. If you like the improvement, keep going and wrap the whole grounding cable. It just gets better the more you wrap. |
In my system it replaced a Galileo SX power cable from wall to PowerCell. So the SRX was competing against an already first rate power cord which already had a treated grounding cable. The SRX is quite amazing. Prior to the (completely reversible) makeover, the SRX opened up the top end in a major way. The top end wasn’t just more extended, it was more detailed and I started noticing percussion that just wasn’t audible before the SRX. Records with depth showed more of it, and the bass also felt much more extended. In the midrange, there was less grain. It was a very exciting improvement, noticeable from the first few seconds of the first record. As noted in the above post, this went from exciting to mindblowing when the grounding cable was treated. |
I use Synergistic Research Powercell 12 UEF SE with SRX power cord from wall to PowerCell and then Galileo SX cords to all components. SR Active Ground Block with HD grounding cables for all cables and equipment. That’s a good start. Things really get good when you wind all these cables and connectors with fo.Q TA-32 tape brushed with Total Contact. Including and especially the grounding leads from all the cables. Most importantly treating the SRX grounding lead. OMG. |
Furman ELITE-15 DM I. I don't really think of it as a conditioner but more as a non destruct surge protector. About 4 months ago during a snow storm we took on an electrical event. Lights flashed and most of the house went offline. Never had partial power before but that is what I had. Furman shut off and read "extreme voltage" state. When the power came back i flipped on the Furman and we came back up. Funny thing is the ceiling fan in the kitchen had been on the fritz for some time and I had been considering a service call on it. After the bump it works fine :) |
The limited experience I've had with power conditioning led me to believe that going straight into the wall gave the best sound. Better dynamics, wider soundstage, etc. On a lark and propelled by threads like this and the one on the Equi-Core I did some research and considered at least trying out the Shunyata Venom Defender. That was when I realized I had something like it already packed away. All it took was a few minutes and I plugged my Blue Circle Thingee into a vacant spot on a Cullen Cable power strip (no filtering or surge capability) using a bog standard power cord. Cue the lightbulb over my head, or the heavens parting. It seems that with both outlets on the same line and dedicated only to my audio and video demands, the Thingee did it's thing. BlueCircle sells smaller versions that don't have receptacles that just filter AC line noise and the Thingee has several times the amount of filtering. Next, I swapped out the standard PC for a Zu Audio Mission PC and things got even better. The noise floor, as well as the ceiling, side and back walls just dropped, blew up and blew out. I spent the last three hours going over familiar tunes only to discover new, or better tunes. A slight hash in the upper registers is gone (didn't know it was there). Everything has air aplenty with exacting space that naturally compliments positions instead of congealing them. The better the recording, the better the results. The funny thing is that with the anything plugged into the Blue Circle the results weren't as good, but when used as a stand alone device, it excels. Now I'm wondering if something like the Venom Defender would be a better propositon than the Blue Circle Thingee, or if there's an even better one out there. As it stands now, this is a rather big improvement. All the best, Nonoise |
My system just didn’t sound right. My thiel 2.4’s didn’t go deep enough. The highs were “ hot”. I had a nice soundstage but no depth. I was plugged into the wall and a power strip. i found a Richard gray rgpc 400 pro on agon. Wow! Bass is now what i expected, deeper tighter than before ( I did put in a bass traps too). Hotness - gone. Soundstage now has a depth and the timbre of instruments is realistic. I think this may be the single best improvement i’ve made; certainly the mouse cost effective. importantly I have a quality surge protection also . Those cheap strips cannot be trusted. Why trust many thousands of dollars to a single event cheap device. Makes no sense especially since a conditioner will improve your sound also. If I did it again, would buy the best you can afford. I’m saving for one of the PSAudio power conditioners. |
Hello, I have used a Tice power-block { larger old unit but works perfect } to feed my tube mono blocks, preamp, etc. for many years. Being an electrical engineer I can tell you that there is measurable noise on just about any AC line. If you want to save the money, you can go with a surge-suppressor AC outlet { amazon } or at least a decent power strip with one in it. |
May I recommend a look at the ADD-Powr Sorcer EMF conditioners. There is nothing out there like it, I swear. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed only changed in form, but it can be given a kick or a boost! We have disrupted the old standard. Ha! So now in 2019 there is a new approach AND a New Reference! |
Hey DTX! That's the crux of the matter. Unless you have an oscilloscope with spectrum analyzer and/or distortion meter most of us can't. The Furman is VERY good at removing noise in the audible and EMI/RFI spectrum, not to mention among the best surge protectors money can buy. My experience using the Furman has been long term. That is, if I don't use I feel I am not enjoying the music well enough. So far I'm not a big believer in power cords, especially given their prices. I do recommend shielded cords as routine, especially when cheap or DIY'd as a profilactic. |
Is there a good way to measure this noise? I use a
Furman Elite-15 PF i 13 and don't know that I can tell any real difference. I'm in an apartment in Uptown Dallas so it's very urban but I figure my apartment power is quite dirty. Also using Pangea power cables. My problem really is doing an A/B comparison. It's almost impossible. Actually it is impossible since ambient noise is always changing and the time it takes to change out the wiring confuses the mind. |
I am going to install a Install a Yeti 1000 Sounds like a cool idea, we need more people trying this. :) I don't think it will be better than a PS Audio power plant, but definitely cheaper! :) What I'd be curious to see are the noise and distortion data coming out of it, including testing under load, but barring that, please try it. :) |
I live in a rural area, prone to power outages and voltage sags during the summer when everyone (including us) have the a/c going. My "A" system has evolved since I became enamored with audiophilia (is that a word?) and my system's components are very revealing, about Everything. After investing significant $ in high quality speakers, tt, phono preamp, mid priced cd player and even an Otari 1/2 reel to reel (recently) and an 8 ft bass trap in the one corner, the sound was the best I've ever heard, with one exception... there was something else going on that wasn't on the media I was playing. Everything pointed to my power... which was standard house wiring fed by a main circuit panel two stories below in the basement at the opposite end of the house. I did due diligence in my research, and decided it had to be the power. Timing was perfect as Music Direct had the PS Audio PerfectWave P3 Power Plant on sale for $1k off. SOLD! Well the difference was breathtaking. The music now appeared out of a black background. What noise floor?? I am convinced, if you have house wiring and dirty power, the puny filters in most audio components just can't clean up the mess. Granted, $2.5k+ for a good quality condition (even $1.5k on sale) to clean electricity I was already paying for is a bitter pill to swallow, but I'm glad I did. Of course YMMV, but in my case, it was $ well spent. btw: I have a "B" system with lesser, but still quality components. A ss amp with phono input, a $2k tt, and vintage but in perfect condition Klipsch speakers, and there is a noticable noise floor when I turn up the volume of the amp. Not just a 60hz hum (albeit very low level) but other stuff I can't really describe. There is no doubt in my mind that this noise floor is "coloring" the music in some way. I can live with it as my "B" system is used for casual listening. Doesn't happen with the "A" system. A proof in the pudding if you will, that the P3 is doing it's job. Good luck with your research. g |
Chang Lightspeed CLS 709.......about $1300 discounted, from The Cable Company. Could not be happier........warm, detailed, 3D, expanded soundstage, and does not limit current flow. Two outlets for mono block amps, two outlets for analog low power, and four for digital. Much better than other power line filters, and Pure Power AC regenerator that I have used. One 709 in main stereo system and one 709 in home theater. |
I have had mixed results with power conditioners. I’ve used Monster, PS Audio, and Torus. At one of my homes there seemed to be an improvement, although subtle. At the house I live in now, I can’t really say it has made a noticeable difference. My conclusion, based on my experience: spending big bucks on a power conditioner is not worth it. YMMV |
I use Alan Maher Designs which in my system consists now of a multitude of various filters, AC duplex and power cords. Have spent many thousands on it since 2010 and to say it makes a "night-and-day" difference does not do it any justice. But plugging everything into filters first is much better than into the wall...there are no sonic drawbacks with it since, like Bybee filters, this is largely quantum-based, no caps or other traditional "parts" that place a much lower limit on how far the noise can be shifted higher into the inaudible range. Doesn't matter how much current or wattage the amps use, it's all without drawback. |
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I do. My current thinking is here: https://inatinear.blogspot.com/2019/04/power-management-for-frugal-audiophiles.html Best, E |
My room was originally built with standard house wiring. Standard circuit, went from outlet to outlet before finally getting to the one my system plugs into. Well this was a long time ago, back when I thought it mattered but not with enough conviction to go up against all the people telling me a dedicated line is a waste. Over the years this was upgraded. First with a dedicated larger line. Then with the same wire changed to a 240v circuit with a step-down transformer. Then with all the wire pulled, cryo'd and replaced. Which now is hard-wired into a Bybee power conditioner. With an assortment of quality outlets. This all went on over a period of nearing on 30 years now. That for me is how long this question of cables and power conditioners has been answered. Drawing power from the wall "as is"? Right. Might as well ask how many are using freebie power cords. Patch cords. Fuses. Cue Colonel Kurtz: The horror. The horror. |
I am using a Furman Elite 15 Power Factor and have for the last 8 years with great effect, with that said I upgraded to Furmans Reference 15 six years ago and could not get it out of the system fast enough, just drained the emotion out of the music so I went back to the Elite 15 and have been very satisfied as my system building has come to an end except for any component failures and they are addressed at time of need. I have just assembled a headphone system upstairs and added a turntable, I purchased a 6 outlet Cullen Cable power box with his hard wired power cord and am very satisfied with that but it has no surge protection. Happy listening |
