Who thinks $5K speaker cable really better than generic 14AWG cable?

Pete : go push play on some good tunes. the flat earthers can sail off the edge by themselves...

ctsooner...your post is overly defensive with no new information.  As Shakesphere said: "Methinks thou dost protest to much."

dynaquest, i laugh at your post calling my post as BS.  What a rude post, but that's fine by me.  

Thanks though for telling me that what my wife shared with me was BS.  I guess you are the audio police and only your views are correct.  Maybe you don't have a resolving system where you can hear the difference and that's fine as wires and cables should be the LAST thing someone gets for their system IMHO (again MY opinion).  

This is a forum and there are no absolutes in audio that I know of.  
I'm glad you don't hear a difference, even though you say there may be subtle differences.  Which is it? It doesn't matter, so no need to answer. lol.  Hope you have a fun time enjoying music.  I heard the there is no need for Tidal or Qbuz either as you can stream music from MP3's and that sounds just as good as higher bit rate music streamed.  I bet you loved cassettes as much as you did albums.  Enjoy the music.

I agree with @dynaquest4 about these threads influencing newbies to spend their money.  When somebody is in the early stages of building a system, either because they are young or because of limited finances, IMO the worst thing to spend money on is cables that, as stated by @dynaquest4 

make very subtle differences (not necessarily positive) at best and if at all

They would be far better off sonically to save for amplifiers, speakers, and sources that deliver the sound they are looking for.  There are many quite good OTS cable products both ICs and SCs that are relatively inexpensive.  Examples of SCs include: 

• Canare 4S11 - 4 x 14 awg copper in PE
• Old stock WE in a variety of gauges (I like the twisted pair 10 awg)
• Possibly the best of this bunch is the cable linked below - 4 x 12 awg in foamed PE, for about a buck per foot, which is also rated for in-wall use and also comes in a 10 awg twisted pair

https://www.avoutlet.com/av-cables-connectors/av-cables/bulk-cables/speaker/furez-fz124as-25/

Oh, sure if you want to go back to the 1970s. Come on, guys. At least get some cables with arrows 🔚 on them for crying out loud.

Home Depot RCA-brand 14ga zip cord is all you really need! I have that in use with my KLH Nine electrostats and the Ohm Sound Cylinders. 

Has there been a palace revolution? Have the inmates officially taken over the asylum? Today should be fun! I’m not saying for who.

+1 dynaquest14! At last a voice of sanity among the inmates of the asylum! Wire is probably the biggest scam dreamed up by the unscrupulous! 

Ha ha ha, If only I hadn’t made the mistake of making up a set of speaker cables myself, While moving, "Long ago". I had misplaced mine during the move. And after being "without" my music for a couple of weeks. "The way I like to listen to it". And since I was already going past the audio store on my way......I picked up just the basics. "IMHO". Wire, four connectors- "Banana", and that was it!
I put them together the best way that I could think of. This took me about four hours, as I am a very "detail oriented", individual.
Now, Some have, "and do", use other verbiage to describe my ways. But no one ever complains about the results. Just the wait...
Regardless, I finished them and integrated the new cables into my rig and finally fired it up. I did not expect much really. I was mainly just crossing my fingers and praying that everything still worked! And also thinking it would be quite awhile until I had everything "Up to Snuff", after the move into a new home. A house with "very", different wall and floor treatments compared to my last digs.
Imagine my surprise when I heard my rig "open up" like never before!
This with both speakers at odd angles, "I had figured, why waste my time even roughly aiming them until I could hear them".
But the difference in sound from my M.L. electrostatic speakers, just as they were? Was quite astounding to me. And I drooled at the thought of the sound after I had "dialed" my rig in!
Anyway, I did find my old cables after a bit and wondered about how they would change the sound. "They were just a generic set with 10Awg copper. From the local audio store and at a cost of "maybe", $40 back then in the late 80’s. And they were the first cables I had ever used with
"Connectors". Not just bare copper secured to the amplifier.
So I changed out the recently, "Home made" cabling for the much nicer looking, store-bought pair and guess what? It sounded like it had in the old house! "Compressed", But I hadn’t thought so the last time I had heard my rig with the "store-bought" cabling!
I ended up taking one apart, and found 10Awg, "Monster" copper cable inside the cover. and it was all green or black. "Mainly black". But after playing with it a bit I found that indeed, there was still some shiny copper there. but cutting back until the oxidation had not infested the alloy proved fruitless. It was ALL green/black! The entire length! "Except for a couple of places, 1’-18" long", had been corrupted!
After that, I never have purchased any other speaker cabling already made-up. And along the way I made many improvements. I have tried others cables. "Many other". But now? It has now been years since I have tried speaker cables made by another and found them to be "better", in "any" way. Some sound pretty good. But none better.
And this is, of course, just-"IMHO".....
And I was indeed "Until this", one whom called ALL so-called, "Hi-End Cabling"-
"Snake oil"!
Can I prove it? Can I prove one cable sounds different from another?
Yes. I have the instruments and the experience now. I could take "screen-shots" of this and other findings and then post them here and there. Would you believe the data if I did? I think not.
But I have never had a reason to post like that.
I make them still but not for me.
"My sets are Perfect! For ME!" So I have just stopped for my needs. BUT TRY OTHERS STILL!
I make them for friends and a few acquaintances mainly. And I give them away. Always. For just a promise of an honest appraisal. And this over time. And for some I keep making different sets. Trying to "Dial them in" for a specific rig and/or someone’s like/dislikes. One of the questions I always ask is;
"If you had to pay for these? What would you say would be a fair price for them?
"They", tell me many different things. But "they" are all different as well. Different incomes, regions of the country and also world. And also different experiences with cabling. Those whom never really thought to spend a large sum on speaker cabling seem to top out at "about", $200 usually. For whatever reason. Those with allot of experience with cabling and also whom spend sometimes "quite", "Prodigious" sums of money for a set offer an altogether different set answers. "
And these are the fellows that for some reason begin to look and sound nervous when we talk of my cabling,........"Like maybe I’m fishing for some loot"!? Ha ha ha,
But I always assure everyone from the very beginning that the cables are theirs to do with as they will. Free of charge. Always, right from the beginning.
It’s the only way to ALWAYS get an honest and constructive answer!
So, This group seems to give me an "mean average", price range that, "They say", they would be comfortable paying. This, "on the low side of the minimum range being roughly", $1,200
With the avg. max of about, $1,850. And of course, a few oddball answers like,- "At $100,000 they would be a bargain"!
No, I am not kidding actually! But then,"That particular fellow", swaps his main rig’s speakers out more often than the president currently plays golf!
And to be honest, more than a few of these guy’s, "have" offered to pay the amount they told me. One even sent me a check which I burned.

My point?
IF, this wasn’t real. IF this was all just in, "My head".
Why then do I get the thorough critiques and offers of payment. And what they tell me is usually spot on from "my" thoughts on the cabling I send them. "Most are living well away from my domicile so I ship them".
So if this subject was, "Snake Oil"?
I would know by now.
If it was, "All in my head"?
I would have been made "WELL Aware" of that also by now!
So do yourself a favor, and quit saying that indeed this is, "Snake Oil".
But don’t give up. Because there is a very worthwhile and valuable, "intangible", available to you that, "we" keep trying to expose you to.
I could give you several reasons why you have not either heard any difference at all. Or, a difference being of some "minutiae". And therefore not really of any moment. Especially after reading all the posts here stating otherwise. But I am sure you have heard them already.
One or more of them, just has to be in effect.
Maybe look into it?
Because to me? The cabling I use now that I made? A bargain at.....
$1,500!!!??!!
Why would I, "As I did", stop, and write this looong missive if it were not true?
This is one of my ways in which I endeavor to further this, "my hobby".
And help others in this hobby to maybe broaden their horizons.
No more, No less, and Always!
And just to tell you- The cost to build my cables "Just materials", costs roughly $300-$450 currently. Six feet in length is about the avg. length. And I will not make them more than nine feet in length. "Move the gear if needed".
AND, It takes about 36 hours of work. To complete one set.
"Really! (36 hours). At the Minimum! With all, - breaks, phone calls and other time related issues fully accounted for".

I have yet to not hear a difference on the impact of cables in a system if and only if the system is resolving enough.

This doesn’t mean a $5K is better than a $1K cable, because it all comes down to design and synergy.

If you don’t hear a difference then that’s great you saved a lot of money.

ctsooner:

Wires, cables,etc. make very subtle differences (not necessarily positive) at best and if at all.  As soon as you said your wife, without cueing, said she noticed a "huge difference," I knew the rest of your post was BS.  

And now we are "burning in" power cords for three weeks.  Pray tell me the science behind that tweak?

You are hearing what you want to hear.  If you can deceive yourself and that makes you happy, good for you.  But please don't make claims you cannot substantiate that will be picked up by other naive and gullable newbees and encourage them to waste their money. 

^^^
Did you re-plug any interconnects while changing the power cables?

What was the A/C power condition?

Did you re-plug the old ones  B E F O R E  changing. If not, then it is quite possible that better contact accounted for the delta.

Lack of Rigor = Saleman's Best Friend

There will always be folks who say ti doesn't matter, but they aren't listening to my system, I promise you that.  When I installed the new AQ Hurricane power cords in my system, I never told my wife.  Everything is hidden by plants etc, so you can't see the cords unless you look really hard.  I'll never forget her first reaction when I put on some music after about 500 hours of burn in.  She asked what I did with the system. She asked if I bought a new amp as she heard a huge difference for the better.  Her ears are very good and we go to a fair amount of live music events when we are able to, so she knows what Joe Bonamassa sounds like at Carnegie Hall etc...  This was a revelation for her and even me.  The only cord I ever installed was one that AJ Conte sent me to try.  It was his best power cord and I put it on my DAC.  It made a nice difference, but not huge.  When I heard the Dragon and Hurricanes in a very nice system, I was floored.  He made me listen to Shunyata and then Garth's new cords.  Both were outstanding, but the AQ stuff was amazing.  I was sold and am so happy I made these upgrades.  

Switching to the new William Tell zero and bass speaker cables made an even larger difference. I was already using an AQ WEL balanced interconnect from server/DAC to integrated as It was basically given to me by a friend.  

I used to own Polk 10's with their own speaker cable, so I guess I've heard a difference since 73 or so, like others who have posted.  

YMMV and if folks don't hear a difference, then that's fine, but it's rude for them to tell us what we do and don't hear.  

It's funny,
I just happened to be sitting here, surrounded by all these big "Dewalt" cases. All open, with piles of their contents all strewn about. And decided to take a break. And I find this conversation first. 
 What's in the cases? Well, just all the common as well as uncommon components, parts, plus all of the odds and ends used to build two types of audio cabling. Speaker cables and interconnects. It's been an 'Off and On", hobby for some time now. Ever since I messed up and "accidentally" made a set of speaker cables that sounded so much better than what I had been using that I was literally "Awestruck".  And I still do that to myself. It's fun!

When I was young back in the early sixties I don't remember any really, "Special" cabling. But even then I could tell a slight difference when I changed speaker wire from the factory pre-installed wire that was maybe 22Awg copper to shiny new, 12Awg stranded copper. And no-one "including me", back then would have believed that now we even have power cables that ca make wild improvements. But only, "If you have a system sensitive enough to appreciate it".  For the most part anyway!

 So yes, the metallurgy of the wire, connectors, twist and a "K'azillion" other variables do make a difference.
I guess you'll just have to trust me on that. Me and the other 100,000+  people that know because we all took the "Journey".  And like everything else in this hobby? It is indeed a "Journey".
Have fun with it!

But man,.....After the last three days designing this new interconnect with the new silver plated copper and solid silver conductors I am using. The  exotic shields, braids and piles of "Teflon", and other tubing. I'll have to take a day just to pack it all back up! Haul it back to the shop, And then clean up this mess! Maybe I'll take a pic and post it tomorrow on my 'Virtual system" here so you can see what I am actually talking about!
It's ridiculous!

There are good reasons to tin copper - prevents degradation to the cable. Interestingly enough electricity passes on the outside of a wire - so it makes sense for not letting it degrade.
I bought some vertere interconnects - they were superb - not too expensive either. I read the website about the research and how they work - then eventually saw that they use tinned copper. 
I happen to have a Lavardin amp and splashed out on some Nordost Heimdeil 2 speaker cables - what a waste of money - I contacted Lavardin and they told me to buy the cheapest Nordost or else DNM cables.
I think the OP should be aware that speaker cables are very amp specific - check out the DNM website - it explains it much better than me. 
Out of interest what is the jury on the Dueland cables as interconnect and which guage

I'm using Belden 9497, tinned stranded copper as the Deuland, also twisted. It ran me abut $30 after attaching bananas. I'm using high efficiency horns, how the wire would perform with harder to drive speakers may be different.

@bacobits1 
Same here.  I am quite happy using Duelund tinned copper 20 ga balanced ICs and double runs of cross-connected quads of Duelund 12 ga wire (i.e., 8, 12 ga wires per speaker) for speaker cable.  They sound very nice, but so did the NOS WE wire I was using before.  Can't say the Duelund wire is "better" than WE wire but it maybe leans a little more toward resolution while the WE wire leans a little more toward a glowing midrange tone.  The differences are not great IMO.  I also own a variety of other moderately high end wire and still prefer the Duelund and/or WE wire.

Been chugging along with my Duelund cables. All for a little over $200.
Nice stuff!

5k cable made right is much better such as my Furtech.HELLO!!

Correcto mundo! 😀

@geoffkait 

I most likely have not given enough time and effort to wire directionality.  Goodness with all the sonic changes with burn in alone I guess I was too lazy to test for direction. I assume I can just test for the more pleasing sound directionally first and then just it burn in after.  You have peaked my interest enough to start playing with direction.  

All I can say is that if you are happy with the cheaper cable, be happy. I don't share your experiences.

ieales
@geoffkait -
Since all wire is directional...

Directionality was also ignored... please point us to relevant tests or simulations or calculations showing deltas from reversing zip cord in the audio spectrum.

>>>>Find it yourself. Use the search engine. Let us know what you find out.

Some might find this Cable Snake Oil Antidote interesting with respect to LRC, the signal and the system.

Cables affect the sound and the effect is system dependent.

Another's opinion on a cable in a vastly different system may not be valid.

@geoffkait - 

Since all wire is directional...

Directionality was also ignored... please point us to relevant tests or simulations or calculations showing deltas from reversing zip cord in the audio spectrum. 

Blessed are those who knoweth thy cable and fear not!

I have used plain copper lamp cord speaker wire until a friend gave me a pair of Nordost Valhalla Reference speaker ribbons. I have said that even if I won the lottery I would not have spent $5600/meter pair. But they did make a huge difference.

Choices are good.  Choose and shut up already.  Go listen to some music 🎶 

I think most would agree that expectation bias works both ways.
Those who are determined that there is no difference between lamp cord and 5k cable simply will not hear any difference no matter their age.....
Although I generally find these naysayers are the last ones who would even try out a higher priced cable, not sure if it is because they are afraid they just might be proved wrong and suffer a catastrophic blow to the ego or their mindset just will not allow said trial to ever take place.
I was a disbeliever
I have seen the light......
Yes the same light that lamp cord should only ever be used for!

dynaquest4

Holy Moly...you guys ARE old! How is it possible your hearing is even remotely still good enough ...

Let's please not make this about age because if you do, it's only fair to point out that the human brain doesn't finish developing until it's well into its 20s. Some of the renderings here suggest their authors are well south of that benchmark.

So let's please talk about audio and music and not judge others based on age.

Count me in the 'very little difference' camp, if there is one in what seems a fairly binary issue. What's certain to me is that the difference between 14awg lamp cord and $10k cables isn't proportional to the price difference.

I wonder what blind testing would show in a case with a known quality/impedance difference, e.g., a 3-foot length of cable vs. a 30 foot length of the same cable. My guess is zero.

I would say more sarcastic then condescending.

You mean this:  "Some time ago, I replaced the Kimber (speaker) cables that came with a slightly used pair of B&W 803's with a 20 dollar set of Monoprice cables.  I had no way to do a "blind" A/B test but after I switched them out those 803's continued to sweetly sing...no difference that I could tell"

dill... thanks but I'll use terms of my choosing.  Was you last post condescending? 

Want my evaluation of WireWorld and Kimber?  Go find it.  I'll not repeat it to satisfy your curiosity.

Party pooper.

Simple. Those who pay $5000.00 for speaker cables.

So, enlighten us on your experience with WireWorld & Kimber Kables. I too have experience with these cables, maybe we share the same results. Please try not to use "snake oil" or "scams" in your review, just what you hear or don't hear.

Will we ever hear the end of it? Probably not in our lifetime.

Sorry, dill....do not mean to project an air of superiority.  I have noted my experience with WireWorld and and Kimber Kables in previous posts.  I don't have to continue to waste my money on snake oil products to satisfy those who fall for the scams in order to have "more experience" and a valid counter opinion about these products.

Eh?
What?
Sorry I did not quite catch that.
Can you speak up a bit young man......

🙈🙉🙊

I do not consider your comments "offensive", I do consider them as condescending (like the post above) as I would venture others here do too. May I suggest that your "opinions" might carry a bit more weight if you can back them up with some of YOUR experience, with your opinions. Is that too much to ask?
Surely, someone of your age could understand that. 🎯

Pretty good with the 'ole Cut and Paste, dill.  Please do not ask me to take a vacation from this forum.  My comments are not offensive unless, for whatever reason, you are inclined to take them as such.  I stand by my opinions and my right to express them.  Being 65, you surely should understand that.  🤩🎼

yna said: " Holy Moly...you guys ARE old! How is it possible your hearing is even remotely still good enough to note the subtle differences expensive cables and wire might make???"

I got interested in audio in 1970 (I was 18) and started experimenting with cables in 1980, I was 38. I am now 65 with only a very minor loss in my left ear and have no problem hearing differences (good or bad) in cables.

Why do you state facts based on other people’s work, citing nothing you have done yourself. It sounds like you think any cable more expensive than Monoprice is a ripoff, doesn’t sound any better and provided nothing that says you have tried anything else.

If you are of the camp that says if the measurements are the same, the sound is the same and that if you pay more then ?$, it is a ripoff. So what, who cares! Most of us in high-end audio are smart people and are not swayed by condescending statements like:

" intelligent people can be so naive when it comes to audio improvements with no basis in reality." -
" In my opinion, the differences in cables (if any - for comparable resistance and length) are very subtle. So subtle that by the time you swap our to a different set your audio memory (the accuracy of which is extremely perishable) will not be able to recall the previous audio parameters sufficiently to note a difference. " -
" Not to mention the colorful garden hose sizes you can buy for mucho $$$$$$. " -
" What audioman is saying in his post is that if you pay more it, will sound better. Same old snake oil pitch. " -
" You should have spent $5K, wgutz, with that extra two grand expectation, your system would have sounded jaw-droppingly better for sure." -

I resent being talked to down by you! Please, consider a vacation from this forum, go on a "quest" and do a bit of cable exploration, maybe gain some experience in listening to different types of wire other than Monoprice.   😎

the only way you will know what you like is to live and try all for a couple months. For ease of change my amp faces backward with binding post facing me....easy to change cables

Sorry about that @geoffkait , yes, the first two paragraphs were partially sarcastic and the final paragraph straight (my wife really can hear the difference and it is the epitome of double-blind testing, she will sit down and tell me what is different without knowing if anything was changed)....enjoy yourselves, its just hifi.

It seems to be getting harder and harder to distinguish the sarcastic posts from the sincere posts. Maybe if people put a smiley face or grimacing face after their posts we would be more able to tell the difference.

@ghasley 

I suspect your premise that trolls living in the basement may have some merit.
Might explain a lot.....
And yes that is tongue in cheek and to be taken in said manner......

I was fine with lamp cord, zip cord or simple, straightforward cables for years. Unfortunately, my wife is a huge fan of the overpriced, overhyped cables which are debated here ad nausea. I sure wish she didn't hear a difference between Transparent Audio and Radio Shack cables but she does. She wouldn't exaggerate it, she has no reason to do so! She also likes tubes better than solid state. What can I say, I love my wife and will go to great lengths to ensure her happiness, even $10,000 cables.

I have heard second or third hand that expensive cables and zip cord sound the same when someone lives in their parent's basement but I have no firsthand experience with that rumor. That might explain some of the results people have experienced through the years.

At the end of the day, listen to your music however it makes you happy and stop obsessing about your gear....and especially the gear that someone else has chosen for their own enjoyment.

I started audio in 1965 with lamp cord and with PCs that were fixed to my ARC Sp-3 line stage and Dual 75 amps all sitting on planks with cinder blocks separating them. I bought Fulton's special cable here zoo creatures reacted to alarm calls and recognized them as welding cables such as I had used in materials testing. I heard 'charged' cables and found them somewhat better. Then about four years ago I got High Fidelity CT-1s to listen to. I was shocked at what their top end sounded like. Later I heard their enhanced which had better bass, and so it went until I got their 'Pros' I had never heard such realism. Later yet I heard their 154 pound IC between my line stage and amp. The bass was utterly real.
  I am utterly happy with your decision but absolutely disagree. I know the impact of the H-Cat OS12 amp, OS-12 line stage and very low cartridge phono stage contributes. I'm happy at last.