Good news for anyone getting ready to purchase an expensive amplifier!
Since amplifiers are indistinguishable from each other, buyers will now have even more money to spend on expensive cables. This is obviously good news for expensive cable manufacturers too.
Geoff, I am curious, are Walkmans (aka, Walkmen?) also indistinguishable from each other, since they do not require cables?
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I guess everyone can decide for themselves at what point the "money spent vs. system enjoyment" curve diverges from the "money spent vs. hear a difference" curve.
At what point would you prefer to listen to music than to listen for differences?
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Good or bad, like or dislike, with respect to cable choices are individual decisions.
Therefore, the attempt to convince others that one philosophy is right or wrong is pointless.
The discussions of different experiences and sharing of opinions, articles, and technical information can be interesting but the labeling and veiled name-calling is tiresome and mostly reflects poorly on the name-caller.
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You need to look deeper, grasshopper. Look inside. Why look inside....does the hook-up wire inside of the $99K amp need to be changed too? |
Mid Fi crowd and the High Enders To-may-to / To-mah-to I am getting nervous again since this is starting to sound like the discussion over on the fuser thread about "real audiophiles" vs. "not-real (fake?) audiophiles." Am I a Mid-Fi To-may-to or a High End To-mah-to? What happens at recess when they pick sides and I end up with the "Mid Fi crowd?" Everyone in Vegas wants to be a High-Roller....who in the world wants to be a Mid-Roller?! How embarrassing. What if someone starts a caste system? Let’s put it to a vote, oops, been there, done that. Who’s on first? Let’s Call the Whole Thing Off |
"Hollywood ... audiophile" sounds kind of fun. Where do I sign up?
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clearthink's post below pretty much hits the nail on the head for these types of arguments.
The only missing piece is how some base their argument not on the amount of money spent but rather on the manufacturer's marketing/quasi-technical discussion of what the expensive item is purported to deliver vs. the reality of what the item (cable, tires, etc.) actually delivers and how it actually improves on the competition. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of regulation or a standard for proof for items that are marketed as providing a subjective improvement - such as a cable that will expand your listening experience by lifting veils, extending frequencies, and opening up your soundstage, etc. Each listener must decide for themselves whether the item/cable actually does those things and is worth the selling price. |
If you love your system or your cables, it’s because they are a match for YOUR ears. Be glad you found that synergy because it’s the only one that matters. Fun buster! What are you trying to do, put a stop to all the arguing, bickering, and name calling? |
I counsel caution. Usually when someone reacts so strongly so quickly to a very new system change, the test of time will usually provide perspective. Put simply...when something jumps out at you initially, be cautious. +1 Good advice also when reading posts from folks who often "beat the drum" loudly for the tweak, cable, or doo-dad du jour. The result can be a frenzy of posts and people who just have to have the "whatever it is." It is sometimes interesting to go back and read about how long "the last thing" was a hot item before "the next thing" came along. |
Did you see anything indicating how much the SonoWeld 1600 costs. It seemed like a secret since it was the only thing I could not find out from the literature. They apparently want potential buyers to call them. |
Geoff, I did indeed try reversing a fuse and the most noticeable difference was the 15 minutes of my life I will never get back. I have now vowed to only try stupid audiophile parlor tricks at midnight during the fall switch from daylight savings to regular time, and to keep the time I spend on foolishness to less than one hour so I can pretend I didn't waste my time. |
How convenient, and original, claim an aberration and "safely" throw out the offending fact. Did you learn that in your
Multivariate Analytical Statistics and Data Visualization class where higher level students basically claim a deep understanding allows them to solve problems using whatever method they wish? I do give you kudos for not using the tired old arguments about my system, my ears, or my inability to afford better cables, fuses, etc. Carry on, and happy fuse flipping. |
"This is why those who oppose such things as superior cables almost always lack first hand experience with them because they can't afford them and no dealer will loan them a set because the dealer knows they are not a customer and cannot afford them........whenever I point this out I am subject to complaints here but that is the cost sometimes of telling the truth in a public forum." What a load of crap. |
@bacobits1
Same here. I am quite happy using Duelund tinned copper 20 ga balanced ICs and double runs of cross-connected quads of Duelund 12 ga wire (i.e., 8, 12 ga wires per speaker) for speaker cable. They sound very nice, but so did the NOS WE wire I was using before. Can't say the Duelund wire is "better" than WE wire but it maybe leans a little more toward resolution while the WE wire leans a little more toward a glowing midrange tone. The differences are not great IMO. I also own a variety of other moderately high end wire and still prefer the Duelund and/or WE wire. |
I agree with @dynaquest4 about these threads influencing newbies to spend their money. When somebody is in the early stages of building a system, either because they are young or because of limited finances, IMO the worst thing to spend money on is cables that, as stated by @dynaquest4
make very subtle differences (not necessarily positive) at best and if at all
They would be far better off sonically to save for amplifiers, speakers, and sources that deliver the sound they are looking for. There are many quite good OTS cable products both ICs and SCs that are relatively inexpensive. Examples of SCs include: - Canare 4S11 - 4 x 14 awg copper in PE
- Old stock WE in a variety of gauges (I like the twisted pair 10 awg)
- Possibly the best of this bunch is the cable linked below - 4 x 12 awg in foamed PE, for about a buck per foot, which is also rated for in-wall use and also comes in a 10 awg twisted pair
https://www.avoutlet.com/av-cables-connectors/av-cables/bulk-cables/speaker/furez-fz124as-25/ |
