Whizzer cone removal


I've got a pair single driver speakers I've supplemented with a ribbon supertweeter and single cap crossover at 3khz. I'm just wondering about very carefully removing the whizzer and if anybody has tried this and if it worked to positive effect. Thanks!

E644771a 3b3e 4b0b bf3f 7aeef71f2b0efourwnds
I would leave it alone.....no going back if you cut it off or damage the cone while trying.   
I have big experience with removing whizzer cone, if you leave WC.,
is impossible to get good result with using Tweeter, All my model
Bache Audio i cut WC  in Tang Bang driver, i tell you based on long
time listening and measuring using RTA system. Dont hesitate, just
get sharp hobby knife and go ahead. The WC-is primitive tweeter
and cannot compare with  update High Quality Tweeter or sypertweeters.
I think WC came from   old professional audio using in Cinemas and came to Home Hi end for folk who liked vintage
I am wondering why some famous  brands using WC
@fourwnds    But to get good sound is not easy, some times you have
to carefully choose the cap crossover, to avoid sound too bright or
dull,
You might first try the non-damaging/easily reversible 98 cents open cell foam tweak.

Cut a thin strip of open cell foam and circle it around the outside bottom of the whizzer cone.

Readily available open cell foam is the Gray foam stripping often supplied with window mount air conditioners.

Or, just order open cell foam online.

Try difference sizes/amounts and vary the placement.

I use vintage Elac S517 drivers with whizzer cones (not listed with my setup) and have used various other vintage whizzer'd units from England and Japan.

DeKay
Thanks everyone. 

@dekay I'm not sure exactly what you mean. If you can and wouldnt mind can you send me a pic?

fourwnds@hotmail.com

@bache thanks for your input and experience regarding the whizzer situation. 

I get that I might be screwing the pooch here if I move forward with this. Why can't I leave well enough alone. I'm getting pretty great sound as it is. Curiosity killed the cat, or does fortune favor the bold, to be continued. . .  : )
My Hornings circumcised the Lowther drivers they used, removing the whizzer cone, and implementing a cone tweeter.  You may want to contact Tommy Horning for advice on doing so
Here's a pic of round foam dots used (I wrapped a strip of open cell foam around the back of the whizzer instead).

http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/diy-og-utvikling-ha-yttalere-forsterkere-etc/83379d1...

I first read about it @ Lowther America or DIY Audio.

DeKay
Addendum...

As the "edit" function seems to be MIA...

Best not to "chop" the Decware drivers as they seem to be one-offs/custom-built and you can't go back.

DeKay
Thanks @dekay and @trelja 

Ill give Horning a jingle next week sometime. 

@Fourwinds Sorry,
I have just found this thread. I’ve experimented with whizzer augmentation extensively. Depending on what your goal is, when done correctly, it is a no brainer. Of course realize that you are now dealing with a crossover and to the single driver purist, everything goes out the window.
First, I have tamed a whizzer by coating the whizzer itself with latex. A single coat tends to tame it a bit without killing its extension. If you cannot find latex.... take a paint can (home based latex paint) that has been sitting for months or years, grab it being careful not to shake it up, open it carefully and you will see the latex on top separated from the paint pigment.

Next, I think Bache nailed it. A sharp blade and a careful hand and the whizzer comes right off. I typically still put a thin coat of latex around the cut area, then use a crossover according to what I am trying to achieve.
I’ve done this with outstanding results.

I just looked at the dots that Dekay posted, these will work also, they are simply damping the cone killing cone breakup. This can make a difference, what I don’t like about this method is the amount of mass that it adds to the whizzer, while it does kill resonances, it adds enough mass that you are killing a bit of sensitivity to the whizzer and rolling off its extension both.... The latex works a bit better, but, the latex is not reversible. 
By the way,  not too many ribbons will like being crossed at 3k @ 6db per octave. 
Also remember, once you cut off the whizzer, you now need to deal with properly blending a tweeter. Good luck, I hope all of this adds a bit of insight, Tim
@timlub thank you for your post. I’m curious and encouraged. First, why do you say a ribbon would not be happy crossed at 3k? What do you mean by 6db per octave. Sorry, my technical skills are matched by no one.
  you have to crossed 7-9k , is best to use High efficiency fostex
sypertweerers ,
@fourwnds 

after reading that you are unaware of what 6db means I would not recommend that you cut off the whizzer on any expensive part..  I don't see anywhere about what driver you are using.  It would take some understanding of frequencies and crossover slopes to properly blend parts.  It is even possible that a single cap is completely inappropriate.  
@timlum 
I am using this driver in some of my models. Whizzer cone , read my
previous post is the simple piece of paper  and coudnot play tweeter
role
 
@ the above 2 posters. Let’s see the driver is a HempTone not a particularly exotic single driver or anything. At just about 3k according to the response graph things begin to start to get pretty squirrelly. I feel like there is a pretty seamless blend between the Fountek’s NeoX 2.0 but I’m no expert. The frequency response kicks in @ 1.2khz for the Fountek. Both speakers share same eff. I didn’t want to try anything there as I didn’t want to hear the tweet seperate from main driver but still utilize its goodness. I don’t know, Anyway I thought I start there and change value if it bugged me but shoot my hearing starts to drop off anyway much past 7k and it sounds pretty good. Thanks for your advice. 

@fourwnds  to make shure you do it right , you have to  operate another
tool , like  RTA system  and measuring microphone , it is not break you 
budget, I know you ears is number one , but you can discovery a lot a good helpful things,   
@bache I will look into this, RTA, appreciate it. I guess it's  time to start getting serious about this, by that I mean seriously funner. I hope. Thanks bud. 

@fourwnds

Agree with bache 100%... this should help Program and Mic

Measure your speakers after you cut the whizzer off, you’ll get a good look immediately where they roll off. Quite easy then to figure where to cross the tweeter.

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/

https://www.amazon.com/Samson-Meteor-Studio-Microphone-Titanium/dp/B00FQE337M/ref=sr_1_39?ie=UTF8&am...

Or Better:
https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT2020USB-Condenser-Microphone-Refurbished/dp/B016YL4POK/ref=s...


Both are decent, will definitely get the job done.
@timlub this is great information!  I just picked up a laptop and I'm going to get into this business soon. Much obliged.  Btw, I have since removed the whizzer and honestly I can't tell a bit of difference.  What I can say is that some speaker position refinement, by ear still, is making a dramatic difference(at least to me).  I thought I had it pegged but . . no.  The difference is the channel balance, reverb on the recording and a gestalt overall.  I have for a long time cheated the room with dual vol. control, and since picking up the Decware Torii, I have had to reckon with it.  Such a frustrating pain in the ass, but the difference between something not quite right but very listenable and oh there it is, is really what all the fussin is about
When I see supertweeters and whizzer lobotomies, I can only conclude that you were/are not satisfied with the Decware speakers. After reading the entire thread, what is your current status? 
I found that removing the whizzer had zero effect. Already employed the super tweeter when I did it. Adding the s tweeter added some more air and detail but it wasn’t a night and day difference. The driver in these was not what Decware uses now or then and was a custom choice. But, I am happy with them. I’m sure one day I’ll change them. But for now they are great. Looking forward to how a deviation from Grado is going change the system sound at this point.