Which watts are the right watts in SS amps?


Hello Sports Fans!

More than a few people over the years on these pages have said only those SS amps which double down in output power as impedance drops are truly special or worthy amps. Eg., 200 @ 8ohms; 400 @ 4 ohms; 800 @ 2 ohms; etc.

Not every SS amp made does this trick. Some very expensive ones don’t quite get to twice their 8 ohm rated power when impedance halves to four ohms. BAT, darTZeel, Wells, and Ypsalon to name just a few.

An amps ‘‘soul’’ or it’s ‘voice’ is the main reason why I would opt in on choosing an amp initially and keeping it. Simultaneously , I’d consider its power and the demands of what ever speakers may be intended to be run with it or them.

I’ve heard, 80% of the music we are listening to is made in the first 20wpc! I’m sure there’s some wisdom in there somewhere as many SS amps running AB, are biased to class A Only for a small portion of the total output EX. 10 – 60 wpc of 150 or 250 wpc.

After all, any amps true output levels are a complete mystery when anyone is listening to music anyhow.

I suspect, not being able to actually measure true power consumption, the vast majority of listening sessions revolve around 60wpc or so being at hand with traditional modern reasonably efficient speakers.

Sure, there are those speakers which don’t fit into the traditional loudspeaker power needs mold such as panels or electrostats, and this ain’t about them.

The possibility of clipping a driver is about the only facet in amp to speaker matching which gives a person pause while pondering this or that amplifier.

I feel there is more to how good an amp is than its ability tou double output power with 50% drops in speaker impedance.

However, speakers are demanding more power lately. Many are coming out of the gates with 4 ohm ‘nominal’ IMPs which lower with fluctuations in frequency. Add in larger motors on larger drivers, multiple driver arrays, and on paper these SOTA speakers appear to need more power.

IMHO It is this note which introduces great concern.

I’ve read every article I can find on Vienna Acoustics Music. Each one says give them lots of watts for them to excel.

Many times good sounding speakers I’ve owned sounded better with more power, albeit from arguably a better amp.

I tend to believe having more than an adequate amount of cap power is indeed integral. … naturally the size and type of transformers in play possess a strong vote for an amps ability to successfully mate with speakers.

Controlling a driver’s ability to stop and restart is as well a key to great sound and only strong amplifiers can manage this feat. Usually this gets attributed to ‘damping’ factor, but damping as I read it is more a shadow than a tangible real world figure as it depends on numerous factors. Speaker cable length alone can alter damping factors.

A very good argument exists about those mega watt amps voices. Each 500 or 600 wpc amp or amps, I’ve heard have had stellar voices too, not merely more watts.

So is it predominately these mega watt power house amps souls or their capacities that fuels the speakers presentation?

Would you buy an ‘uber expensive’ amp based more on its voice or soul, than on its ability to output loads of watts, even if you feel the amp may be somewhat under powered for the application?

Choosing this latter option also saves one money as the more powerful amps do cost more than their lower outputting siblings.

Please, share your experiences if possible.

Tanks muchly!

blindjim
Sorry @georgehifi , what is EPDR?


EPDR is short for "Equivalent Peak Dissipation Resistance"

It’s the combination of the speakers low impedance and it’s percentage of - phase angle at points of the frequency range. Which can give a far low impedance as seen by the amp, than just the impedance measurements alone.

It’s explained here on page 27 in the pdf from HFN Lab Test done on the Wilson Alexia (the page is slow to load give it time or refresh it)

https://www.absolutesounds.com/pdf/main/press/WA%20Alexia%20HFN%200313-4web.pdf

Also here's 3 pages from Stereophile  https://www.stereophile.com/reference/707heavy/index.html

Cheers George
Peachtree Decco, a 50/channel amp, had a lot of trouble driving my Dynaudio speakers (86db). The Dyns were much less efficient than my current Legacy speakers, but still, the Decco was struggling to drive them, so obviously it wasn't really able to output clean 50 watts peaks, or even constant 30 to 40 watts as that should have been enough to drive the Dyns in my smallish room to loud levels.

Classic example is your Peach Tree at 50w, if it had "good current" (almost doubling wattage for each halving of impedance) it would have been able to drive the Dynaudios easy, as the Mark Levinson ML2 monoblocks would have easily done it also with great sound (maybe not party levels).

Cheers George   


@georgehifi 
Your input is well received. Thanks much. I’ve included a range of amps and speakers as well as approximate physical setup of the speakers in the room, so I hope this is sufficient info to help you see this issue more clearly.

Looking forward to your input. Thanks.
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@twoleftears

Thanks much. I recall your input on the Listz and appreciated it immensely.

I feel many speakers can be run by any number of amps, although better built and or more powerful ones will do a better job.

Of course, the heart or soul of what ever more powerful amp is a large question mark one’s preffs must get in tune with before it goes home with you.

I’m inclined to believe the Ayre INT is a nice unit, my thinking is that a gbit better amp, meaning more power and more prolific construction ought to show itself as a nicer arrangement. Or I sure hope so.

The Listz for me are sort of an afterthought and not the primary tartget. Albeit I’ve been around long enough to know anything can happen depending on how the storms of life get to tossing one along.
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My instincts say any amp I’ve listed in this thread will do just fine with any speaker also listed in this thread. But the pedantic obsessive aspect of me says, “make sure!! Don’t want any negative surprises.”


The one thing that keeps pestering me is when looking into amps which boast huge output power ratings as their standard character, like 500 or 600wpc amps, I’ve yet to find one which sounds bad. Almost regardless the setup. Big krell, big Macs, Lynns, MLs, even a big old Conrad Johnson tube amp was nice listening.

The way each amp handled the paired speakers was fairly evident too in that the sound was tight. Quick. Clean.

Harmonics and dynamics differ from one setup to another but the speed and pacing were taught and pronounced. IMO those attributes are the result of power.

I’ve only heard Mr. Hanson’s 400wpc monos, nothing else. Did not dig the setup but, those quick, claen, precise notes were evident there too. I did not know the power rating of the Ayre monos until I asked later, during the audition that they were 400 watt amps. I did feel from the onset these wre stronger than the usual 150 – 250 wpc amps I had been listening to earlier.

This is my ‘take’ on pairing speakers with SS amps. Be it right or wrong.

With tube amps, I’d lean more onto the loudspeaker’s tech and construction being kinder towards power in a more minimalistic view. Higher Eff & higher IMP.

With multiple cone drivers and low IMPs I get a different sense of direction if I feel I want to fuel them with SS amps.

Of course, money plays a SIGNIFICANT role. Always. At least to the point wherein I can rationalize it to myself. Hahahah.


In no real order the speaker short list is:
KEF blades, I & II, either or.
VA Listz or Music either or.
Wilson Sabrinas, Sashas, either or
TAD Evolution one

Longshots if found used:
Magico S5 latest ver?
Lanch 7?
Wilson XLS ?
YG ?
Eggelston Ivy, andrea II & III.

Most of these speakers (maybe not the Tad’s) without spending time to research their impedance v -phase angle graphs (EPDR), would want an amp that could deliver good (doubling wattage) current into low impedance’s, no amount of watts will make up for this if the amp doesn’t have that current ability.

Don’t just talk watts, talk about the watts be able to double for each halving of impedance as well.

BTW: blindjim There are two threads going at once on this one subject in different headings, ask the mods to get rid of one them.

Cheers George
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