Which Turntable??


It is time for me to go back to vinyl.

For a turntable I am debating between a new Pro-Ject Elemental belt drive with W & F given as .14% & a used Technics SL-1800 DD with W & F given as .025% wrms.

Is this a typo or is the 1800 really that much better? Technics describes their W & F as infinitesimal.

Any comments will be appreciated.

Thanks---r
roscoe50

Showing 4 responses by johnnyb53

What is your goal? The Elemental is a USB table. This means it not only has a built-in analog-to-digital converter (ADC), but also a built-in phono preamp, so you can plug it directly into any standard line level preamp. Do you need these things or are you better off spending your money on more turntable and less on preamps and converters?

Speed accuracy is important to a good LP playback experience, but it's not the only thing, and .13-14% isn't bad. The Elemental is $275; how much is the Technics SL1800 and what is its condition?

Each turntable has its own merits; direct drive turntables have a pretty low noise floor, excellent speed accuracy (if the spindle is lubricated and everything is in good working order) and has a strong, rhythmic drive with an assertive midrange. Belt drive tables with elastic belts such as the Element tend to have a more laid back presentation, perhaps not as driving or compelling as a DD when the music calls for it.

It's also helpful to know what preamp/amp and speakers you'd be plugging this into.
Pioneer recently released a new DD turntable to fill the gap left by the
Technics SL12x0 line discontinued in 2010. The new one takes care of
weaknesses in the old design that should appeal to audiophiles:

1) Motor with about double the torque
2) Rubber (or synthetic) sleeve inside tonearm to dampen the ring
3) More inert top deck of zinc rather than very pingy aluminum
4) Constrained layer damping of the zinc and polymer layers of the top and
plinth for more inert chassis
5) Higher quality better isolating feet
5) RCA, ground, and IEC connectors in back to choose your own AC cord
and interconnects

turntable-an-audiophile-can-love/>Steve Guttenberg on C-Net and Herb
Reichert in the March 2015 Stereophile give very favorable reviews to this
turntable, having (together) reviewed it side-by-side with the VPI Traveler, a
an up-to-spec SL1200 MkII and a restored Thorens TD-124. They clearly
preferred the Pioneer to the VPI Traveler and also the Technics when they got
a better matching platter mat, and while the Thorens has its charms, I get the
sense that the Pioneer made the Thorens sound dated--musical in a vintage
way, but lacking the Pioneer's speed, bandwidth, and lower noise floor.

When you consider what these other turntables can cost compared to the
Pioneer's $699, it appears to be a good value. IIRC, Reichert considered it
the TT to beat under $2K.
03-08-15: Schubert
EXCEPT, the first Pioneer he tested had very sloppy bearings. BIG if.
Not really. They're evidently adjustable. I've read of the same thing in a couple of other reviews. The user or a tech adjusts the bearings and it's good to go.

03-16-15: Dave_72
... One shouldn't have to mess with the bearings. And I'll take the Technics all day long over this Pioneer or any of the new direct drive 'tables (made in China) popping up in the last year or so.

I thought I'd add a friendly counterpoint to this discussion:

With all the tweaks audiophiles do to get a component or system sounding right, a quick bearing adjustment seems pretty minor by comparison. There's also the possibility that this is simply a first-run occurrence that is or will be fixed soon. In the meantime, with Pioneer's warranty, you could probably get it adjusted at a dealer.

As for the China origin, China is where Well Tempered turntables are made now, and are also the country of manufacture of much of LOTS of high end equipment. It's the Chinese motors that have populated the latter day DJ machines including the Stantons, which are very rugged. This Chinese motor puts out twice the torque of the original Panasonic.

Reichert (the S'phile reviewer) *really* liked the Pioneer. It wound up as a Stereophile Recommended Class C turntable, and Reichert considered it "Borderline Class B." This is a turntable you can buy almost anywhere--Guitar Center, Best Buy, B&H, etc.-- for $699. Even if you pay a tech $50 to adjust the bearings, it's still a steal. There were no other Class C turntables anywhere near that low a price, let alone Class B.

Specifically, Reichert (and Guttenberg, who was also in the room and reviewing for C-Net) both felt it smoked the VPI Nomad where it counts--in pace, rhythm, transparency, and inner detail.

Bearing adjustment or no, for someone on a budget, I think it's still worth looking into.