@bgm1911I had a listen to some high end focal speakers. They had no bass. I think all focals are like that.
Showing 17 responses by kenjit
Your extreme bias against GMA and the late Roy Johnson, and ludicrous attacks against them, have been well-exposed on this forum.No they have not been well exposed. On the contrary they have been well hidden due to my posts being deleted. Threads such as this one, are not welcome on Audiogon. Nothing negative or critical is permitted on the forum in case you hadn't noticed by now. |
@millercarbon Wilson use some of the best drivers on the planet and use thick rigid cabinets. There's nothing to criticize there. The only possible explanation is that the crossover may not be tuned to your preference. But that doesn't give you a reason to write them off. Perhaps fix your room? That's probably the other reason. |
@whipsaw you are completely wrong I'm afraid. The green mountains don't even exist anymore. Theyve just disappeared as if by magic. They all used a cheap 6 inch car woofer that cost about 5 dollars and a cheap tweeter too. They never did good bass because the cabinets were too small for the woofers. They also used badly designed crossovers that were too shallow to protect the tweeters. They never achieved much success because they sounded so bad. I read in another thread that many customers paid green mountain audio for speakers which never arrived before the company suddenly disappeared, leaving these poor folks with losses of several thousands of dollars. They are the worst sounding speakers I have ever heard. |
You were also dishonest in your dealings with Roy Johnson, as he spelled out in detail on the thread that I linked above.I'm afraid it is you who is being dishonest. Just because he disagreed with my criticism of Green mountain audio, it doesnt mean I was dishonest. It just means there are two sides to the story. You dont know which side is true. Despite this, you have taken his side. That shows you are the one who is biased. In fact, a very high percentage of all of the feedback on their speakers was positive, as anyone who cares to engage in a broad internet search will discover.I have already done an internet search and what i have found is that it is really only a handful of owners who extol the virtues of their products. There is no evidence that green mountain audio were inundated with orders and that they could not keep up. There is no reason a company would deliberately refuse to grow if it had the chance to. What reason do you suggest explains their lack of growth? |
Green mountain has had numerous complaints, I am certainly not the only one. Heres a complaint made to bbb: https://www.bbb.org/us/co/colorado-springs/profile/audio-visual-equipment-rental/green-mountain-audi... https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/r-i-p-rest-in-peace-roy-johnson-green-mountain-audio-s-genius Here are a few other comments from the thread above. There appears to have been many victims. Hopefully this evidence casts doubt on Roys credibility regarding his views on our transaction. I know that myself and several other individuals had prepaid for some upcoming designs that were to include the ribbon tweeter. I know I am doubtless the only one who's speakers are currently sitting in his shop, being built, or in various stages of repair or completion. I would love to be able to eventually get them back (mine have been there for several months for a simple crossover cooking) He had a pair of Chroma HX's almost finished for me... they were supposed to ship mid July. That will not happen at this point unfortunately I need replacement woofers , payed for 2 new woofers and had been texting him back and forth for a while. He was in the process of finding a matched set for my speakers when I suddenly couldn't get in touch with him. I ordered one of his 3-way designs, which represented a significant financial investment for me. I do not know why there was a delay, but they were not delivered until 9 months later, had manufacturing faults, and needed to be returned to the factory. This was not arranged for another 18 months, however. Then, after endless promises, I never received a replacement pair or a refund, and by the time I found that I could sue him from overseas, I was thwarted by a statute of limitations. I remained in contact with Roy, and the promises of a refund never stopped, but I ultimately lost a lot of money. I too have speakers that he had been reworking for 18 months However, he has, on more than one occasion, taken money from customers and promised them the world only to not make good on his promises. Roy basically lived hand to mouth and was just trying to survive doing what he knew how to do best, make great speakers. I had once referred a customer to Roy and he promised this poor guy a custom effort on a new pair of speakers he was designing. Needless to say the customer paid for the speakers but NEVER received them. More promises and a little more bullshitting. This went on for over 2 years until the gentleman finally gave up. Roy’s ability to design was undeniable. His business prowess was horrific. He wasn’t a bad person but not everyone knew him the same way. For all those who loved the man, I’m not saying Roy wasn’t a great designer. I AM SAYING that those of us who’ve known him for a long time or tried to do business with him, know (knew) the real Roy. On that note, I’ll leave it at that and no longer comment on his character. Some people have concerns (people got swindled) though and you should mind your business. This is the perfect place for them to seek retribution. The proper audience is in attendance. I have already sought advice from a solicitor about making a claim as a creditor against Roy's estate The gushing responses of people who I am guessing really didnt "know" the man is what necessitates the unsavory posts. I maintain that when you screw people over this becomes part of your legacy. After lengthy conversations with Roy over the last couple of years, it became obvious that I was going to have to be lucky to get them.The whole thing was a version of go fund me. I paid for speakers more than 4 years ago. I know I will never get them. There was nothing to get from him then, and there is nothing left to get now. After knowing Roy for 8+ years and speaking with him on a nearly a weekly basis I feared this would become his legacy and told him so. I did own several iterations of his speakers, but stopped doing business with him after our last deal. After that i always told him if he needed money I would rather him ask, then sell me a product I knew he wasn’t able to deliver.
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Neither of those issues are relevant to the obvious fact that kenjit is biased, nor to my initial criticism on this thread. I had simply questioned the "bright and fatiguing" claim of another poster, If i was biased against Roy or his speakers why would i buy his speakers in the first place? I'm afraid your argument just doesnt add up. Why would i be biased against them? If anything i would be biased in favor of them. Its more likely that i am simply reporting the truth. I never had that experience, nor can I recall having heard of others having had it.And we have the right to question your claim too. Could it be that you have hearing loss in the highs? That would explain why you cant hear harshness. If you read the hifi reviews of the green mountain Eos and Rio, you will find that the reviewers certainly do allude to the same problems I and others have heard. But as we all know hifi reviewers tend to be biased and they will not severely criticize a speaker design no matter how bad it is. Thats just the way the industry works. The fact that you cant hear the problems that the rest of us can just means you have bad listening skills. |
The fact that the manufacturer no longer exists is completely irrelevant. GMA had a strong following, and for a small, boutique manufacturer, did well enough to make owners of its speakers happy for ~20 years, prior to Roy's unfortunate death.They had a very small following and the reason they existed for so long without ever growing as a company is because their speakers weren't good enough to compete on the same level as B&w, Magico, Revel, Kef and the like. In addition, I do not count myself as one of their customers that were very happy and there are many more that came out the woodwork once the company had disappeared to express their dissatisfaction. You should be ashamed that you are trying to prevent anybody from expressing a negative view of Green mountain audio. Everybody is entitled to their views whether its good or bad. |
No evidence? Roy had emails and correspondences with you, AMEX and Paypal. There is ZERO chance that he was making those claims up, and, in fact, you did not dispute them.I do dispute it. Do you have the emails from AMEX? lets see them? show them to me. Even if i was refunded it would only prove that my complaint against GMA was upheld by paypal. So you are WRONG again. Nobody cares about that and this thread is a discussion about the sound quality of speakers so you are off topic anyway. There is no more green mountain audio and there is no more Roy Johnson. Face the facts and stick to the topic. And thats the problem. They shouldnt believe it unless there is evidence for it. Do you have evidence? No you dont, So should we listen to you? No we should not. He also had your subsequent, unfounded attacks on the forum deleted, which further underscores your pathetic bias.Nonsense. It simply proves that the forum is biased in his favor and does not tolerate criticism. It should be shocking to any reasonable person that somebody could have posts on here deleted at his request just because he didnt like them. You are either angry with me because I have criticized the sound quality of GMA and you regret buying them or you genuinely cant hear how bad they sound and you are genuinely trying to defend against my remarks. It truly is hilarious one way or the other. |
@whipsaw Setting aside your absurd claim that you are "reporting the truth", a claim that has been demolished by Johnson’s detailed recounting of your behavior, your responses on this thread have one, deeply ironic thing in common: dishonesty.There is no evidence that Johnsons account is actually true. Has that occurred to you? Do you realize how biased you are by simply taking his word for it while rejecting mine? Especially now that there is plenty of evidence which goes against his credibility based on how he treated other customers? The original poster’s claim, and my objection to it, were about the EUROPA, yet you reference two entirely different models, which are obviously irrelevant.That is not true. They all use the same nasty cheap woofers and they all use the same simple and again cheap crossovers. They all use the same nasty cabinets that is another reason they sound the way they do. All the green mountains have the same coloration to them which is why someone posted a thread on here asking which green mountain speakers was the warmest sounding. This implies they are all cold. I would agree. They are cold, bright, harsh and fatiguing. Pick whatever word you want to describe it but in the end its one reason green mountain could never succeed as a company. There are some people like you who cant hear problems like this and are able to tolerate bad sound. That was the target audience for green mountain audio, hence their lack of success. They were also unreasonably expensive considering the cheap parts they used whereas competitors used much more costly parts. A minority of audiophiles like you are more easily duped than others which is again why green mountain enjoyed limited success but nothing more. The green mountain speakers were poorly designed. That is why they sounded bright and harsh. They had no baffle step, poor bass extension and they had a lot of diffraction due to the irregular shaped cabinet and the tweeters were being overdriven as the slopes were too shallow. A 4th order slope would have fixed this but Johnson was reluctant to do so because he was a proponent of so called time coherent sound. Even though this has never been proven to be audible let alone important, he prioritized this at the expense of all the other factors which are far more important and certainly audible. The Rios suffered from tonal problems which was reported by the reviewers and corroborated by me and others. But Johnson was very defensive when it came to being criticized. Unfortunately this is another reason the company could not succeed as he was stubborn and resistant to criticism. I have seen a number of his speakers crop up on ebay and the like being sold for a fraction of the original price as most owners simply cannot live with a speaker that sounds so bad. Green mountain Audio never enjoyed big success and now that they’ve gone, they will be forgotten forever, (except for the fanatics and eccentrics.) |
I didn't suggest that you made up the claim. I simply found it odd, given both my experience, and the relative lack of similar opinions from other owners whose feedback I have read.How is it odd that some people dont like the sound of a speaker? It happens with every speaker. And given that Johnson had a proclivity to have inconvenient posts deleted at his request, is it any surprise that we didnt see many negative feedback on his speakers? |
I responded to a specific objection to the speaker, not a broad one.What was the objection? Bright and harsh? In which case I will ask you again. Why is it odd that some people think a speaker, in this case the GMA, sounds bright and harsh whereas others dont? Could it not be equally odd that you fail to hear the brightness and harshness that others have reported? Could it be that you have hearing loss? Could it be that you are refusing to admit the truth? Could it be that you have bad hearing? There are clearly many possibilities that would need to be looked at. Why don't you do readers a favor now, and stop polluting this thread with your biased, and frequently dishonest posts.Why would my opinions be biased? for what purpose? If they sounded world class, why would i lie and say they sounded horrible? I'm afraid your argument makes no sense. You are the one that is biased because you believed everything Johnson said despite there being no evidence. You have been duped I'm afraid. You refuse to condemn the fact that Johnson had a proclivity to having posts that were inconvenient deleted. You have nothing to say about the reasons I mentioned that the GMA sounded bright and harsh. Face it. You are in denial. |
@whipsaw You still havent answered what reason i would have to be dishonest. You have nothing to support your allegations. Of the many archived posts relating to the subject speaker, the "bright and harsh" complaint is almost never foundand i have already told you why that could be. Johnson may have had any negative posts deleted at his request as he did with mine. You admitted this is what he did with my posts so you dont know if it had happened on other occasions. Johnson was an active forum user here and on other forums and any posts that related to his speakers would attract his attention. I recall that any time something negative was posted, a handful of his followers would show up on the forum. I suspect Johnson may have been contacting these followers and asking them to post positive remarks to counteract any negative ones. This happened on various forums. The specific criticism is very uncommon, hence the logical question of whether or not the problem may have been related to something other than the speakers themselves.Nonsense. You wouldn't know how common it was unless you knew how many people had listened to GMA and out of those what percentage found them to sound bright and edgy. I have also found that most of the GMA supporters were believers in Johnsons theories on time coherence. Given that to date this idea has never been found to be important or audible it diminishes the credibility of their opinion about how the speaker sounds. I have also told you several factors that caused it to be bright. You have failed to address these factors and put the blame somewhere else even though the reasons I gave were the most obvious explanation. You have unfortunately lost the argument now. |