Which cone's or platforms have helped?


I am curious which Cones or platforms you guys are using on your equipment that have given the best performance? Which products have you tested head to head? Which products were a big disapointment? I am currently looking at the mapleshade cones. I am already using a large maple base like they recommend. I am posting this under digital because I have been told that it can make the biggest difference on CD players.
tennispro

Showing 9 responses by bob_bundus

Cdc thanks for the placement tip: I just removed the Orchard Bay titanium's & installed the ceramic DH's last night, & am so far not impressed. Will try your approach next.
Hi Tom I agree with you completely about placement under the footers, in theory I don't see how that could work very well at all.
Are you saying that although you bypassed the rubber factory footers (by placing cones directly in contact with the chassis) that the effect was still enhanced when the rubber footers were completely removed from the equipment? That is my perception of your explanation, & while it doesn't seem to me that would be of any significant consequence, if that is in fact your experience then I thank you for the worthwhile tip & I will try it out myself.
There are about a million different approaches - the "right" one is the one that works best in your own rig.
My present "digital stack":
one-box CDP on top - (no mass loading atop of it)
Orchard Bay titanium cones
Orchard Bay brass pucks
Black Diamond shelf (or Zoethecus Z-Slab shelf, both work pretty well, Z-Slab is less expensive)
Vibrapods
rack shelf (itself an MDF composition)

Have also used Black Diamond #3 &/or #4 cones, and Audio Point brass cones in this sandwich. O.B. titanium's are amazingly better, but are not longer available. I'm gettting some titanium Nordost Pulsar Points & DH Labs ceramic cones to try next, but so far the above sandwich has worked best for me. YMMV
Sugarbrie what you said...
I've been aware of this too, & found that the Vibrapods need to be loaded basically at the midpoint of their weight range. Just requires some simple math to calculate where you're at. It's like the springs on a vehicle; too little weight-loading & you're bumping all over the place, too much loading & you're always bottoming out. At midpoint, you have some "spring" in both directions.
YMMV
"The best cone material" is the material that works best for you in your own setup. Too numerous variables determine the optimum approach; the only way to find out is via experimentation. Even the specific placement of the cones certainly has a very noticable effect. I haven't played around with the DH placement tricks yet, but I suspect that even if some improvement is realized, I'll not be keeping them. They sound so slow & sluggish; dynamics & PRaT have all but vanished.
Gold plated brass was once recommended to me by a knowlegable dealer (who didn't even sell the cones which he suggested would be the best) & sure enough when I installed them under my speakers, the results were certainly amazing. This is not to say that some other material or product might not work even better; I am pleased with my results so far, so I haven't tried anything else (yet) although I probably will experiment further.
Going back to the CD player, brass has done well for me in my digital stack (see the above post) but titanium works even better. Black Diamond, a carbon fiber composition, falls somewhere in between brass & ceramic, which is to say that they were better than nothing but still not very impressive, in THIS system. Your mileage WILL vary.
Mr. Chichiuno has just sent me the Nordost titanium Pulsar Points to audition; I'll be trying them out next. Pulsar's are also available in aluminum at far less cost, so that might be interesting too. My VPI MK4 turntable has stock aluminum cones & they seem to work well enough, but again I haven't experimented in that regard. I've also seen wooden cones, & stainless steel is also available. It all depends upon the specific application & setup. Just as in cabling, there is no single "right answer". Sure do wish it was that easy... but half the fun is getting there.
Performed my initial Nordost titanium Pulsar Points testing last night & these things do show some promise.
I installed 3 of the Pulsar's with their tops directly contacting the EAD Ultradisc 2000 CD player chassis - I figure that's a more valid comparison since the Orchard Bay's were also done that way.
Bear in mind however that for my last change recently I had gone to the ceramic DH Labs cones & did not like them at all, so at this point *anything* was a significant improvement.
I think that those ceramics were probably worse than nothing at all.

The rig was powered down Thursday due to thunderstorms in the area so unfortunately it was a cold startup, but nevertheless so far I like what I've heard.
Many of the same characteristics as the Orchard Bay titaniums, although with not quite as aggressive / articulated HF extension (pretty much a good thing) but also the LF's do not seem to be quite as deeply extended (not such a good thing).
Also the dynamics are not quite as lively; wife was listening too, & she basically decided right away that she favors the O.B's dynamics over the Pulsar's & she asked me right away to put them back in.
I held off however, reminding her that this solid state Accuphase equipment takes about a day or so to warm up & sound its best.
So this was just an initial assessment with cold equipment; take that for what it's worth.

The sound last night very much reminded me of the characteristics of the brass Audio Points & pucks, good, but not quite up to the level of the Orchard Bay.
Now I want to reinstall the brass cones & pucks just to make a close comparison, then I'll restore the OB's & then go back to the Pulsar's so I can make some very close comparisons & report back.
I also would like to repeat the whole comparison process after changing out the Black Diamond shelf for a Zoethecus Z-Slab; the Z-Slab being different in some ways just as the two sets of titaniums differ, & not sure which I actually prefer.

Since it was advised that 3 Pulsar's seem to be preferred over the 4 placed under factory footers, I probably won't bother to test with 4 but again there's another set of variables that could be played around with. Nordost's instructions actually recommend placing them 1ea. under the 4 factory feet.
More later...
I now have a review to write on these Nordost titanium Pulsar Points; they better even the Orchard Bay titanium's. With my equipment warmed up I am now amazed; I will of course follow up with that info. here.

The quality of this product is subtle indeed; they don't come right out & hit you over the head --- you have to listen for awhile before you realize just how good they really are.

Will post my next report when I've converted my notes into an actual writeup; I have some more experimenting to do as well, but I've already decided to buy the review sample.
...more later...
Just so as to not keep you waiting here's my unedited scribble-notes on Pulsar's:
3 Pulsar's mounted directly contacting the CDP chassis
Black Diamond shelf below Pulsar's + Vibrapods under Black Diamond shelf.
MDF composition rack shelf base

seriously good - very good

overall more polite natural & musically refined than Orchard Bay's -
(Orchard Bay is Nordost on steroids - similar sound but more hyperextension of bass & treble & also more punchy + dynamic)

stages speakers back a few feet - deeper stage with nice center image floating above & in front of speakers
longer & deeper decay - you hear deeper into the music & micro detail

less bass depth but still nicely controlled well defined bass (but wish they had better extension of bass like the OB's have)

midrange liquidity - smoother vocals esp. female

smoother highs - more scintillating & reduced digital glare while revealing subtle sonic detail

maintains good sense of timing - good PRaT toe-tapping rhythm

you don't notice at first just how good the Pulsar's really are - it's a subtlety thing

only after listening for awhile & hearing all of the things that the Pulsar's do so well do you begin to really understand the quality of what you are hearing

Please contact member Chichiuno for details on a great deal for these Pulsar's, but be very careful, Anthony makes it so easy - could become a costly habit.
Hi Chuck I neglected to answer your question above:
Actually the design differences are significant - not even close to the same shape at all. Regarding hardness, I do not know. Get on the Nordost website to see a picture of the Pulsar Points; very different approach. They are also available in a less costly aluminum version (doubtful the performance is equivelant, but I guess that's possible) however I wanted to compare titanum with titanium. The Orchard Bay's are shaped like a Hershey's Kiss with a very sharp point, & are best used with O.B.'s large brass pucks beneath them. They were/are available through Stewart at Sanctuary of Sound, a highly recommended Audiogion dealership. He has photo's on his website. I say "were" because I think he discontinued the titanium, but still has Orchard Bay brass cones etc. available which are said to be very good as well. Stewart also gives some very good advice based upon his substantial experiences with tweaks & he has never steered me wrong.