Which 300B SET for SF Guarneri Homage?


Driving my Guarneri with a Pass Aleph 3 amp(with audio aero capitole mkIISE cdp+pre), which goes quite well, but thinking of upgrading amp to a couple of 300B monoblocks...
The thing is this is a tricky change because, among other things, the Pass is built like a tank and is an excellent amp. So I want to make the decision carefully with no hurries...
Considering as an option the Coincident Frankenstein's but i'm not too informed about tube amps.
I listen to all sorts of music though fav is Opera, so my expectations with the change would go on the line of getting a more real life experience.
I wonder if anyone had any experience of driving these 87db sensitivity, 6-8ohm speakers with a SET and would appreciate opinions or suggestions
dongiovanni

Showing 10 responses by daveyf

Hi Don, As a fellow owner of GH's, I have heard them with a number of different amps. IMHO, GH's don't really work well with Single ended low power amps. As you state, the GH's are 87db efficient, which is a bit of a tough deal for low power or flea power SE amps. I think the GH's need at least 50+ watts/ch.and more is a lot better.
You do not say how much power the amps you are considering put out, so I can only guess that since they are 300b's that they are putting out less power than 50 watts/ch.
Dongiovanni, I looked up the output of the Coincident Frankenstein's. They put out a max of 8watts/ch! I would be VERY surprised if this amp could drive the GH's.( especially since you have a fairly large room) I noticed that Coincident also makes another model-- The Dragon; which puts out a max of 75 watts/ch. IMHO, that amp would be a far better choice. Do you have a chance to listen to the Coincident/GH combo before buying.. That is what I would suggest if you have the opportunity.
Charles1dad, have you heard these amps with the GH's? I admit I have not, BUT I have heard several low powered 300B amps with these speakers that are clearly a poor match . What you end up listening to is basically distortion. I think YOUR advice is actually very poor IF you haven't heard the amp/speaker combo that the OP is asking about. My suggestion, IF you read my post, was for the OP to try and hear the Frank/GH combo for himself and then decide. That is really the only way that I know of wherein one could be absolutely sure that the combo works well enough for the OP's taste.I agree that numbers don't always tell the whole story, however, as I own the GH's ( Do You also?) I know that these speakers do NOT work well with lower powered amps and are NOT that easy to drive ( Plus, I have a much smaller room than the OP!) So, a safe bet would be the Dragon's and the Frankenstein's a very questionable choice, IMHO ( regardless of the transformer and PS).
BTW, your point about numbers also applies to your statement that the GH's have a very favorable load and phase angle ( aren't these numbers?)
Guys, I think you are missing the point here a little... Sure the Frankenstein COULD work and maybe the OP would be happy with them. BUT, the Frankenstein might not/probably wouldn't work with the SF GH's. It seems to me that if the OP doesn't have the opportunity to listen to this combo himself, it would be far more prudent to acquire an amp that very definitely WILL work with the GH's.
The Dragon amp by the same Co. WILL work with these speakers; not COULD work with these speakers-- I think we can all agree on that.
As an owner of the GH's, and having tried this very speaker with low powered 300B amps, I know as a FACT that the300B amps that I have tried with this speaker do NOT work well ( at least in my small room). Unless you own this speaker and the amp in question, all else is supposition. At the end of the day, UNLESS the OP is able to hear the Frank/GH combo for himself, then it is a crap shoot as to what the result will be for him.Knowing these speakers, like I do, I personally wouldn't take that risk. Just IMHO.
George, I do agree with you that the GH's like a little stick up front. Along with my 65 watt/ch tube amp, I also use, to get a different perspective, a 250 watt/ch Rowland amp. The GH's have no problem at all with 250 watts/ch! OTOH, I don't agree with your comment that the GH's need a room of 5x6 meters otherwise they cannot image!... I have mine in a 3 X 3.5 meter room and they image very nicely and are able to portray depth well. This room size is not ideal, BUT you can get the GH's to work in a small room, albeit with a lot of experimentation.
Dongiovanni, I don't think having the sub help with the bass is going to make much difference. As I stated above, the GH's need a little stick up line. The Pass
at 30 watts has the ability, current wise, to drive the GH's to a satisfying level in your room, helped by the fact that you are not asking it to push much bass. An 8watt 300B SE amp is a different deal. It could work, BUT I doubt it would be satisfying at all; as Flg2001 pointed out, the 300B tube is not like an 845 tube or 211 which in the Dragon puts out 75watts/ch. Since you are unable to listen for yourself, then you had better get return privileges from the dealer/manufacturer, if you insist on trying the flea powered amps.
Charlers1dad, We know that you like and enjoy your Frankenstein amp. What you seem to keep missing, is the point that knowing this amp well is frankly fairly irrelevant. Asking Israel about his amp is not the question, the question is how well he knows the SF GH's? Because, once again, unless anyone, including Israel, would have extensive knowledge of the pairing ( the Franks AND the GH's) then any recommendation on the pairing is pure supposition.
Could the pairing work, would the pairing work, is it likely the pairing would work...WHo knows!! What we do know is that the OP will NOT have a chance to listen to the pairing and therefore would be taking IMHO an enormous risk if it didn't, which again IMHO is HIGHLY likely. What we also know is that there are several good candidates that WILL work... Even one of Israel's own designs.
Larryi, I think what you posted is very good advice. Generally the whole SF line is NOT really low powered/flea powered SE friendly. Like you say there are SE amps that are a better match for these speakers;however, none of them that I am aware of use a 300B tube.
Don, have you put more time on your Frank's yet?
If so, I am curious as to your thoughts when your system is
required to reproduce dynamics?
I agree with you Phaelon; your observation of how a 'phile's jaw drops once they hear their less efficient speakers driven by a quality amp with power reserves, is my general observation also.
I actually am beginning to think that in many ways Charles1dad and I are talking of the same thing. It's true, I have not heard the Frank amps or with the SF GH's combo. He also apparently hasn't heard the SF GH's and therefore neither the combo. I don't question his experience with the Frank amps; He doesn't question my experience with the GH's. Turns out that the OP seems to be happy with the combo...which is clearly to do with his expectations. Good for Don.
Would this combo work for me or other 'philes with different expectations?
Who knows, BUT I very seriously doubt it would be to my liking.
Luckily, to each their own applies in this hobby..:0)