Sold about 10 years ago.
(Sorry, couldn't resist. :-) )
(Sorry, couldn't resist. :-) )
Mine is next to my LP's, VPI record cleaning machine and Aesthetix phono stage.
This type of set up requires long interconnect runs from the preamp to the amps, but that's still preferable to long phono cables or putting the turntable next to my large speakers.
This has worked for me but is not necessarily the only (or best) way to do this. I liked 4yanx idea of having it in another room. Talk about isolation !
Believe it or not, I once toyed with the idea of constructing a sliding track with a 3" maple base which would slide back and forth through the wall between my music room and the adjoining room. "In" to change the record and "out" when spinning. A sliding door in each room would be closed depending on current position. Maybe in another lifetime.
Mine is between the speakers and behind them, directly in the middle on a light weight, rigid stand. Take a look.
Funny you mention the other room option. That is exactly what happened to Ivor before he designed the LP12. It might not be your cup of tea but you gotta hand to the man for raising the bar of analog playback.
I don't need a bunch of acoustic treatments but will be making some very similar to yours 4yanx. Glad I took a look.
Mine is on the side wall behind the speakers, with interconnects as short as I could reasonably make them. I intentionally chose not to place the turntable rack between or immediately behind the speakers on the theory that soundstaging might be compromised, but I've recently heard several systems in which such "behind-and-centered" configuration has worked out quite well.
Turntable and rack are of the high mass variety, floor is suspended wood floor over a crawl space with multiple floor jacks increasing the rigidity of the flooring under the turntable and the speakers.
I also have toyed with the thought of the turntable being in another room for isolation, but the interconnect length that would be needed has always dissuaded me.
My TT is located adjacent to my listening position on the long wall with other source equipment, my preamp and some LP's. Amps are between the speakers on the short wall. Other LP's are shelved with CD's on the wall opposite the electronic's. TT sits on a high mass stand on a wood floor of 2x6" T&G sub flooring and a 3/4" T&G hardwood floor. Very well suported (2x12" planks on 12" centers). Turntable is isolated from the stand by alternating layers of wood and sorbothane. Works quite well - the only down side is a 25ft run of I/C's from pre-amp to amp.
Mine is centered on the side wall to the left of the speakers as you are facing them. Two racks: One for the table/Walker Motor Controller, and on for the pre-amp and it's power supply. This requires a 26 ft run of IC's between the preamp and the mono amps which sit on stands in between the speakers.
My racks are DIY two shelf units, constructed of 1 3/4" rock maple with threaded brass rods, washers and nuts. TT sits on another 3" thick maple slab coupled to the rack using Mapleshade brass cone points. Motor controller sits on Walker Valid Points, which sit on Walker Resonance Control Discs.
OK, so here's my little prepared speech concerning the ergonomics of TT placement: everything else aside for a minute, I would like my TT as close as possible to my listening position, so that if at all possible, I can be seated when the stylus hits the first recorded groove. I actually had the ideal situation once upon a time when all my source equipment was in/on a very stout 5 foot wide, 20" H x 20" D low slab table right in front of the listening couch. The floor was a concrete slab of course with floor outlets right by the table and a raceway in the floor to get the long IC to the amps. Fabulous!
Now I'm on a second story (not a concrete slab), so the TT is on a target wall shelf lag bolted to a concrete block wall directly to the left of my listening spot. Once I know the stylus is safely settled into the lead-in groove, I can usually get seated in time to capture the magic.
But if you're into analog, absolutely nothing beats being able to do it all while seated in your sweet spot. (Drinks go on a narrow table behind the couch!)
On the side wall, just a few feet from the listening position. On one side is another stand with the record cleaner on the top shelf and new inserts and outer sleeves on the other shelves. I use a DIY high mass sand filled stand (even the 8inch square legs are filled with sand). Phono amp, pre amp, etc, is on a seperate high mass stand next to it. This makes it easy to get up and change records, keeps all equipment out from between speakers, means long expensive interconnects to the amps.
Mine came out of the closet... Honest!
Well, at least it's back into the system. Many years ago a TT was the centerpiece and reasonably well contained in a home-brew contraption. Then came the grunions - you know, rug rats. The whole system (except speakers, of course) migrated into a closet in an adjoining hallway - unusual, yes, but away from prying and PBJ-covered fingers. Over the years family demands changed, CDs arrived, and the turtable & vinyl migrated to a storage closet. And then there was this stupid, stupid thread here earlier this year that kinda booted my butt into gear and the turntable literally came out of the closet and I started listening to vinyl again. Family status and accompanying FAF (Family AF) means that it's sitting on a jury-rigged pseudo-isolation contraption on a shelf, but it has to be along the front wall between the speakers today. At least it's out in the light of day...
mine is immediately to the left side of my listening position along the left wall (room is 21 feet wide); there is a 1 meter interconnect to the phono stage on a rack next to the tt. the wall behind the tt has a large multi-cylinder diffuser. the floor is 6" of concrete and i have a 24" x 24" piece of Travertine on top of the concrete for the tt. the tt itself has it's own integral stand and air suspension.
i have spot lighting directly onto the tt, with one button on my remote the lights dim. i like lots of light for cueing and checking the stylus but like it dim for serious listening.
i can be back in my chair before the music starts after cueing......and the tt is easily seen from my listening position.
the VPI 16.5 is set up on a built-in cabinet in the hallway outside the room with all the tools at hand for quick action.
Due to lack of space I have Lovan 3 point stands with .75" marble shelves with the turntable sitting on top with an extra 1.25" granite slab separated with rubber buttons. All of it sitting between speakers. I haven't had problems with walking around or vibrations from speakers but the granite does have a "ring" when you tap it. I am considering a maple platform and maybe some Ganymede feet beneath it. Would the lateral movement that is possible with bearing type iso have negative effects on turntables. Would the arm bounce back and forth in the groove?
Well, you can tell where mine is by my system pictures, but for those who don't wish to look it is behind and almost centered between the speakers on top of a DIY stand. I toyed with placing everything opposite the speakers (and I still may), but the wall behind the speakers is very accessible so that's where the dedicated circuits went for the analog and digital components. My table may be a bit high off the floor but since everything is on a concrete basement foundation I didn't worry about it.
Like those absorbers, 4yanx! I have four, 3x4, one 15"x90", and a boatload of Jon R's bass traps. Most of those are the 12" diameter, but I do have one 16 incher that tames the bass in a particularly troubling corner behind the speakers.
Mthieme, RE your ringing granite shelf: The rubber buttons are making the ringing worse. A little tip: when you put a heavy material like glass or granite on a another surface or shelf, place a sheet of thin 1/16" foam between them (you can find it anywhere they sell packing supplies.) It mates the two surfaces together uniformly and damps out any vibration between them.
Glass and granite do have a high frequency sonic signature and they need to be uniformly damped/mated to a substrate like wood (or even another slab of granite!) which is accomplished easily with a very thin sheet of foam. It would be even better to spread a layer of contact cement and laminate the two surfaces together, but that gets a little messy as a DIY project, and foam gets you 80% there.
Thanks Neil,I think you are right, it probably does resonate because of the rubber suspension. The granite seems to weigh about 80 lbs, and if it was completely coupled to the next layer I bet it would be quite dead. I will try your fix first since I already own the granite. I've read several threads lately that seem to imply that platforms with some "spring" like wood absorb,drain vibes better than high mass materials like granite. Timbernation.com has some beatiful racks that caught my eye however.
About 1 foot behind and inside of the left speaker. Not ideal in anyone's book, but it's all the room allows.
We had to make a functional, decent looking living room, leave the fireplace exposed, include the audio system AND a 43" widescreen. All this in a 13 x 17 space. Now that was a challenge.
It took me two months of shuffling furniture and equipment around (on my computer screen, fortunately) before I got a layout that worked... more or less. There isn't a spare cubic inch anywhere, yet it doesn't feel crowded. (Of course I'm pretty skinny!) Even the cats have room, and the sound in the sweet spot is actually quite decent.
Mine is around the corner, in another room, so I could avoid locating it behind the speakers. My speakers are located in my living room, which opens into the dining room. However, there is about a three foot deep wall that runs perpendicular to the long wall shared by the living and dining room - basically a small divider. It is behind this small wall where I have stashed all of my electronics, table included. The table sits atop a rack, whose feet are positioned over joists. Overall I think it's pretty well isolated.
I posted this in another thread but it might be helpful in the context of this thread, too.
When attempting use of a wall mount rack, be careful before drilling holes and positioning other associated equipment (regardless of table). Room nodes can be an issue - a serious issue. I built a wall rack using 1000lb rated Stanley brackets and a 3" rock maple base. I positioned where I THOUGHT I'd be okay and attached straight into wall the studs using SIX 3" lag bolts. The floor was a poured concrete slab. As one increased gain, the air borne resonances caused a terrible rumbling mess. Touching the wall near the supports - rock solid, not so much as a trace of vibration. Further out on the base - different story. Moral? The rack can be mounted like a pillar and while you can eliminate floor vibrations and all but eliminate wall vibrations, those air borne forces are much greater than one would think. A two foot repositioning solved the issue entirely, but the six holes required filling and repainting in the process.
Does anyone know a way to eliminate this air-borne effect if someone were locked into an otherwise poor position for a wall mount without moving it elsewhere?
4yanx -- is there another wall, right behind the first one your wall shelf is attached to, that joins it at a right angle just to the right or left of where the wall shelf is?? (I hope I'm right on this one!!) What might be happening is the horizontal vibration in the first wall (created by the sound waves) creates a twisting motion (rather than just back and forth) around the point where the perpendicular wall joins it from behind, creating more motion out at the front of your wall shelf than at the back where it joins the wall. Placing the wall shelf right over that point would be the best place. Just a wild guess!! :~)
Although I'm an advocate of wall shelves for TT's, a big, expansive stud wall, using 2x4 studs 16" apart can vibrate like a bee's wings! Then, the only usable location is near a corner or adjoining the fireplace (unless you can figure out how to brace the wall from behind.) In those cases, if you're on a concrete slab, I say get a great sand-filled turntable stand with spikes biting right into the concrete.
No, it is an outside, load-bearing wall with no perpendicular walls, though I understand your point. Built in the 50's it has 16" spaced studs AND angular bracing between studs (I know because I stripped off and replaced old knotty pine paneling!). So, wall vibrations were really not the issue in this case. Moving the rack 2 feet fully solved the issue, so I was always under the impression that air-borne vibrations were, indeed, the culprit. I can set a glass of water on the rack now at cranking volume, without so much as a ripple on the surface. I now use the wall rack for one table with two other tables sitting on sand-filled Osiris Giza amp stands. They all sound equally good, can't pinpoint any benefit of one placement over the other.