Where have the long-time regulars gone?

With the holiday season here, I find myself thinking about friends and acquaintances, as well as the good people I have met here on Audiogon. Next month will mark the start of my fourth year of participation on Audiogon, so it is with regret that I note how many of the long-time "regulars" who began this forum are no longer making posts (at least not with any regularity).

I miss the spirited exchange and occasionally sharp differences of opinion that were aired here (although I don't miss the nastiness that sometimes crept into some posts). I always enjoyed and/or learned from the posts by folks such as Albertporter, Cornfedboy , Garfish, Bob Bundus, Tireguy, Trelja, Sc53, and others, and the forum section is the poorer for their absence.

So, I pose a 2-part question: where have the long-time regulars gone, and what will it take for them to return so that this forum section regains its vitality of old?
Scott, I can see how it is easy to burn out on posting, or is that burn in? Oh that's right I was told that there is no such thing as burn in and I must be, in not so many words, a KOOK! See my point at all? I am about ready to give it up again for the, I don't know how manyth time!
Hi Scott; I've wondered that too, and to some extent I've just become a "lurker" here on the 'Gon. I've also been spending a great deal of time learning digital photography software, printing etc., but still find time to check the daily ads and look in on the Forum threads.

But times change and people move on. I think you and I and the other "old" regulars you mentioned have all been through all/most of the really controversial high end audio issues, and are not much interested in doing it again, eg analog vs digital, tubes vs solid state, AB and blind testing, Krell vs everything else, value of expensive power cords, do tweaks work, CD vs LP, pre-amp vs direct to amp, etc. etc. etc.

The Forum, now being moderated, has become much more civil, and there are so many technically specific questions/observations that only a few-- if any can comment on them. I do think the group you mentioned-- and many others too, eg Swampwalker, Danvetc, Tubegroover, Redkiwi, David99, Treyhoss, Angela100-- were here at a transitional time for the Audiogon.

We all went through the "flame wars" for many months, and I'd like to think that if I've/we've contributed anything to the Forum, it was in helping Audiogon usher in a sense of courtesy, civility, and community while still providing knowledge and maintaining the vitality you mention. BTW, and IMO, the best post I ever made was a response to a neophyte who wanted to know what a pre-amp is-- I gave a simple explanation that was much appreciated.

There is now a new group of intelligent and very articulate "regulars" who have taken up the cause of high end audio here on the 'Gon, and I see the Forum as being in "good hands".

I hope all the above hasn't been too maudlin (foolishly sentimantal). Cheers. Craig
Don't forget Bear and Audio Engineer. As previously posted it does seem that a lot of the same stuff is rehashed, much of it personal preference with no real conclusions available. Not a lot in the way of "break through" or cutting edge unique products in the recent past either.
Gee, I thought I was an old time regular, but I suppose only 2 years or so still makes me a newbie.

Regarding Garfish's point of having covered all the issues -- I, for one, will be more than happy to debate the same old issues for the next 150 years.

I thought that's what this hobby was about?!
Dont forget our bud,dud!
Im sure he still lurks here but I doubt he'll be back.
He was censured for his speech defect.Isnt that discrimination!? We miss ewe doug s.
I agree with your post, I hope those Audiogoners are still reading but for what ever reasons just don't post. I miss them!
CW, 12/01 only looks like a year to me, but that's ok if you'll fess up to being old. A lot of these issues that keep coming up are just boring to go into for the 20th time, and, frankly, the level of discourse has declined. There's a current thread that asks why the subject of DBT's is controversial. Some of the responses speak to that issue, but they are hard to find amid the 10,000 word essays full of non sequiturs on why DBT's are worthless in that writer's opinion.

There are some people who hang out here and just drown out any chance of having an intelligent conversation. If someone asks gee, do wires really sound different?, he's met with "If you can't tell they sound different, it's because you don't have good enough hearing, or your hifi system is not good enough to allow you to tell the difference." This is just as bad as, maybe worse than, the guys who used to answer questions like "which interconnect shoud I get, the Silver Streak or the Blue Heaven," with "save your money and go to Radio Shack, wire is wire." How about answering, "yes, I think they do, and here's why," or "no, I don't think so, and here's why."
Their labeling people "naysayers" who are responding honestly to valid questions. Too many true believers around here, and not enough skeptics.

That's one reason. Another is there arent as many lighthearted and entertaining posts.

Another reason, and this is more positive, is that many of the people who came here found this dicussion group while looking for hardware or advice about hardware, and arent looking anymore. Charlie (danvetc) as an example, isn't really in the market much anymore.

Where did they go? Some to other forums, but most to their listening rooms to spend time with their hifi systems.

Audiogon is becoming a very boring place.Very few serious and interesting subjects.Too 'civilized' as well.Threads that get most responses are:'your favourite speaker finish' or 'the best edition of some Pink Floyd album',or 'what do I do if my girlfriend says no'.So, there is nothing to be surprised with.
I think there is a natural time limit on very active involvement, both because the topics tend to repeat, but also, as Paul says, people work through a period of evolution in their systems where they have lots of questions and curiousity, but ultimately get to a point where they know their system is pretty much done and it's time to just enjoy it. Maybe in a few years, there will be another spate of activity around trying something new, but when you get a system that is as performant and enjoyable as you feel that you can get if within your price range, the topics become less interesting.
You guys got everything right, I don't post near as much for a number of reasons. I think my system is "finished" for the time being, and know what I would upgrade to when the time is right- so posting new subjects is fairly moot. My personal life has become MUCH more hectic and allows less time online and the time I spend is usually spent reading and posting when I find the time- as said above I don't post to topics that I have before time and time again also someone always gets it eventually :) I knew all of you had it in you! And the best reason of all is because a large number of fellow audiogon'ers have become good friends and we spend more time talking one on one then conversing in a group, and about more then just audio. I spend an awful lot of time on the phone talking to lots of people who are as crazy and in some cases crazier then me which is quite the anemity. I do read a lot here and still learn a lot but it is as though I have evolved and spend more time enjoying what took so much to create- Thank you all! ~Tim
Audiogon will stay as the premier high end trading outlet, but the forums will just keep deteriorating.

Answer: censorship--I mean, "moderator approval".

Just look at an uncensored forum like Harmonic Discord and compare it to this...
That's the thing about freedom: Taking the good with the bad. The owners of this site decided freedom was "Too risky" and turned it off (censorship). The fire burned bright for awhile (remember the 60's?) but, as usual, the restraints of reality set in and turn every thing to oatmeal (with no sugar). At least Agon is a decent bulletin board. So sit up straight, do your homework and wait for the next "cool thing" to come along.
I am not sure if I qualify to answer here, but since I have recently passed 300 threads, I guess I may qualify for at least "irregular" status.
I only try and answer those threads which meet some narrow criteria:
1. Try to encourage and help newbies.
2. I have first hand or recent experience with the products in question.
3. I avoid trolls wherever possible, don't even read'em.
4. Try not to repeat what is already said.
5. Anything about music is always interesting.
I have noticed fewer opportunities to respond recently, and am concerned as I think the hobby itself has been slowly shrinking.
That one's easy... everyone who has ever been a serious audiophile is still around and just as addicted as ever, just maybe on a less active, voyeuristic level. It's not an addiction that you ever become completely indifferent about. So the short answer specifically regarding the 'whereabouts' of the likes of cornfedboy, Albertporter, trelja, tireguy, et. al., is that they (like me) may now, and from time to time over the last couple of years, are able to sedate their addiction with just 'quick hits' of their several fave audio sites and then return focus to life's more necessary concerns, which in reality puts this materialistic hobby into 'real' perspective. Lack of jobs, family stress, IRA/sucurity shrinkage (or vaporization), etc. that has really waylayed a HELL of a lot of people for the last couple of years. It may not be noticeable to those that are unaffected, but the brass knuckles economic crisis has, for many folks, made the fight for basic survival a full time focus. Did for me. Went from $150K/year to unemployed for 9 months. IRA from $500K to $5K. You get the point. During that time, I still visited audiogon, the asylum, stereotimes, soundstage, etc., just maybe only 5 days a week vs. 7, and for a total of 20 mins/day instead of 2 hours. And I haven't bought anything for over a year - partly cuz I'm finally happy with my system, partly cuz I was flat busted. Anyway, I'll stop there - point is, once an addict, always an addict, it's just maybe not as consuming as it can be when you have fewer concerns. Just one early 40's father of 4, corporate guys experience/opine/answer. Like all else said here, worth -0- or something; take it like you want..

Johnnybravo out.
the usa economy sucks big time, so my legal practice (regrettably for this tiny community, as others) flourishes. more so than in the (hard-to-believe) past 34 years. i have NO free days available from now 'til mid-january. i turn down a couple of potential clients 'most every day. ok, i'll not work on 12.25.02. but i've not yet bought a single chritstmas gift. don't know when i will.

i lurk here ever so often and, now and then, continue to serve as auiogon's "mouthpiece." i'm truly burnt out, tho, and find the great majority of queries in the forums repetitive and, consequently, producing just slightly more than ennui.

i truly hope things change for us all in 2003 (but for the earnings i realize as a litigator and specialist in complex bankruptcies). audiogon is still the best of its ilk. thus, i am honored for my inclusion in sdcampbell's list of those who contributed to its flavor.

Maybe if Carl came back, he would spark more interest. I personally couldn't wait to read what Carl's next thread or post would be. Carl sparked good interest. He was a didicated audiophile. What does everyone say,,, lets ask Carl to come back? What about Sean and remember RedKiwi? How bout POPS? Lot of good people missing. I think many just glance thru and find not much more to grab their interest. Someone mentioned, how many times we going to do Tubes vs SS etc etc.. Time marches on and so do people. It's still a great site,,, Happy New Year everyone and A'gon,,, Merry Christmas,,,,, lets get Carl back. Anyone else agree,,, Carl liked you Cornfeed... You guys got along good,,, it was fun... The ol days... It's going on 5yrs I since I first found A'gon.. It didn't even have a dicussion area then if I remember right.. Just classifieds.. AudioReview was big time back then.. Wow,, did they drop back.. Times changes. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone. mike
Hi Scott et al
Still here too, although primarily lurking lately - once in awhile you'll hear from me although burnout (& combination of other factors as mentioned above) has slowed me down such that I still have the desire to participate at a slower pace. I've even finally caught up with Kelly (we both have >1000 posts) but too much of this can get to you after awhile, so for sanity's sake (a sane audiofool - oxymoron statement!) you just have to kick back sometimes.
Many topics have been over-reviewed & many people regretably just don't bother to check the archives or use the forum search engine. Not that I've seen it all, nor do I claim to know it all, hardly! And it is nice to be missed so thank you for the compliment.
One thing that really bugs me, & I'll get this off my chest right now, is the continual nay-saying by those with nothing but opinions & no experience to back up their 'knowledge' yet they unfortunately continue to misinform & misguide the newbies. Some newcomer posts a legitimate question, gets some good answers, then those know-it-all clowns come on here saying "that's bullshit - prove it to me", "that will never work", arguing on & on adnauseum with nothing useful to contribute. One gets really tired of refuting their disbelief after awhile, not that I care what they think (their rigs obviously suffering from their ignorance) but that the poor soul who doesn't really know the truth from lack of their own experience becomes hopelessly confused & gives up too soon. The naysayers do a real dis-service to the hobby by endlessly promoting their ignorance & that really gets my goat.
I advise according to what I've heard on my own & learned firsthand from my own experiences. I may say "this tweak worked for me, that didn't, but the other guy over there had a different experience altogether". or "I loved this product, couldn't stand that one, but that guy over there loved it anyway". I try to see both sides, realizing that synergies are never the same from rig-to-rig, and stating my own experiences yet acknowleding that *there are NO absolutes in this hobby!* Simply keeping an open mind has served me so well here, & has taught me that many of my preconceptions were so far from reality as to be laughable, my electronics degree aside.
I too am about finished with my rig for now, but I'm still here to learn, to share, to grow, to fellowship, to promote that which is perceived to be a shrinking hobby which I truly love. I hope to see/hear audio flourishing, & being enjoyed by everyone well beyond my time on this planet. And that is truly a part of my motivation for still being here after all these years.
Bring back Carl!
Hey Scott,
Thanks for including me in your list! I haven't disappeared, but like Tireguy my personal life got kind of hectic, then my work life got busy, and now it's the end of the year again. I was asked by a friend recently to put together for her a list of my favorite recordings purchased in 2002, and it reminded me of how I loved your Jazz List of 2001 last year at this time. I hope you will have time to do a similar list of this year's best in jazz, in your most-valued opinion. My list for my friend is in the alt.country/singer-songwriter vein, and I found I had many excellent recordings to recommend to her for this year.
I hope you are still enjoying your system, your music and you job hunt! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and all the other regulars and irregulars. This is a great site, whether for buying, selling, learning or just shooting the breeze. I never tire of checking out the forums each day. Like others, though, there often isn't a lot I feel the need to chip in on.
Damn !!! I didn't know i was missing !?!?!?! Do i need to make MORE posts ??? : ) Sean
I am not on your list, but am diligently working at being a long time regular. I don't know much, have bought and sold a lot of stuff, and have definite absolutely right opinions on everything. I think that qualifies me for these forums.
Hey, I'm with you Sean! In fact, I just read your most excellent and detailed (as always) post tonight concerning the Phillips SACD1000.

I can understand the burnout that a lot of you old pros must face from time to time. Yet, the individual and collective contributions to this site from many of the posters on this very thread have produced tremendous long-term benefits to many, many newbies who silently read and absorb, and then one day will make better, more clearly guided decisions as a result. Many of you, in fact, have had a direct impact on my desicion making as I've built my system this past year. Bob, I have you to thank for your famous "it's like a $10,000 component upgrade" comment concerning the Wattgate 381 outlet. I don't know how to quantify it exactly, but the best description I could give it is "Ahhhhhhhhh" - for my system anyway, it was the 'missing link'!!! When you made that comment, I immediately took notice (and so did many others) but only because your opinoin has a high degree of credibility which has been built through knowledge, experience and a fair bit of hard work, I'm sure. Certainly, it takes time and effort to post (if nothing else).

Of course it's not just about buying the right components, is it? It's about having a place to go where you can expect to find an open and honest dialogue for all audio related topics. Anyone who hangs around this site for very long (and has an ounce of common sense) will quickly learn who the naysayers are and see their true colors. It doesn't take a genius to spot a fool, so don't be discouraged by the small minority of idiots in the crowd. It sure would be nice, however, if everyone could limit their comments to match their level of direct experience and/or personal knowledge of the subject matter at hand.
I must have included an incomplete sentence above, because I certainly know the difference between "they're" and "their." Maybe I meant someting like "their calling people names is unpleasant."

"Naysayers," "idiots," "ignorant." See what I mean. We used to fight but we didnt call each other names.

I make all of my decisions on a purely subjective basis and trust my own hearing. And I think I hear differences between components and cables that my electrical engineering designer friends tell me won't hold up in a DBT. But I appreciate their point of view. They don't laugh at me and I don't call them names.

But I don't hear the variety of sonic differences among similar components, or tweaks, that a lot of people here say they hear. Sometimes, all you have to do is consider the quality of the thinking expressed by someone to know that you don't need to try his favorite tweak. That isn't ignorance or idiocy, just a little applied intelligence.

There used to be some guys who would butt in, as I said above, to answer "which" questions with non-responsive rude diatribes. Now, we have the opposite. Honest questions about "whether," are met with mindless drivel so long you don't even want to try to find the responsive comments in the thread.

Right now, most of the people who post here who would be counted among the wire is wire crowd seem pretty reasonable. This used to be a place where both sides could peacefully co-exist, unlike audioasylum, where you can't say "DBT," and audioreview.com, where you can't say any two things sound different from each other.

I almost mentioned missing "Dug" earlier, but didnt want to impliedly criticize the decisions that led to his departure.
Sarah- I'd love to see your best of list for alt-cty/singer-songwriter.
I'm really disappointed that everybody has receded from contributing regularly - I'm pretty sure that we're right on the verge of coming to a conclusion about analog vs. digital, tubes vs. SS and whether wires make a difference or not. We recently came to unanimous conclusion that Krell does, indeed, make the only amps worth owning, having convinced everybody who thinks that there is a large premium built into their pricing based on brand name that, in fact, there's little if any profit margin in those prices. And the current DBT thread appears to be close to settling that debate once and for all.

C'mon everybody - I think one more big push and we can get these issues resolved and move onto whatever the next topics might be.
Well, the old time regulars may be retiring, but music and listening are both alive and well. I have undertaken a substantial upgrade that Audiogon - both its prices and its posts have put within my reach. So if everyone is retiring, I say farewell and thanks. I, personally, am not done yet.
From the invisible man who appears to not have much to say but has enjoyed the people on this site for pretty long, have a nice holiday season.
Scott, you need to add yourself to the list. I for one, miss your insights greatly.

As far as Carl goes, I would LOVE to see him return.

By the way, where is Natalie???

And, Brulee, Eldragon, and Redkiwi, you guys need to get your props in this thread also.
Trelja- You completed the list of the other's that I fealt deserved mentioning. And what about J_Thunders, killerpiglet, Schubertmaniac, gosh I wish I could remember more of those helpful people who helped me get started!
Anyone remember Sluggo? I loved that guy's posts. They were so funny.
Tim, I think that you completed the list... Thunders and Killerpiglet kept things interesting.

Oh yeah, Sluggo and Sluggo2. Really funny posts. And, does anyone remember Joe_coherent(sic)? Interesting cat.

Here's my personal backing up of Dave's mention of sedond. Doug, we really would love to see you back.
Carl Ebbers was the drama king with a lot of knowledge, too bad he felt it was necessary to launch personal attacks on a regular basis which led to his demise. Sluggo was an enigma, who would pop up out of nowhere stir up some trouble and then slither away for a while waiting for another surprise opportunity.

The strangest character (who does not post here) has to Romy the Cat.......anybody understand where this guy comes from?
Sluggo was the "George Carlin" on this site. Very funny unless it was directed at one who couldn't tolerate it. I do believe the progression at Audiogon is just fine right now.
I've been checking the forums here since Feb. 99. I've learned a lot from the regulars and have tried to help out where I had some knowledge. It seems that most specific questions get answered. I think that the absence of Romy is one of the better features of audiogon. Other than having newbies do a search before launching a generalist question I'm with Snook2, I'm fine.
Whoever Sluggo was, I think Clueless does a great job on the humor and witticisms in the forums. I have burst out laughing so many times at his contributions, esp. his signature line: Sincerely, I remain,
Learning curve for one. Also don't want to bother arguing. Sean, etc. are still around and help a lot of people. Let's thank them.
sluggo, the eldest of our four west highland white terriers, died on thanksgiving day, 2002. god, how i miss him! he signed all the posts i composed, after some of his usual minor editing. the poobahs of audiogon banned him, when a few thin-skinned targets of his "clothesless-emperor" ripostes took offense. he shan't return, tho one of his ilk may yet try to replicate his tyrannical humor. he was my favorite, too.

Kelly: I understand all too well how you feel with Sluggo's passing. About 15 years ago, I had 4 miniature Schnauzers that I was nuts about. I had to have all of them euthanised over a roughly 14 month period, and I was a basket case after each one. Maybe Sluggo and my 4 faithful hounds are cavorting together in the great beyond...

I always knew that was you.

But, who drank the scotch, you or Sluggo?

I am sorry about your loss.

Kelly, very sorry for your loss. Sdcampbell, I'm sorry for you as well, I can't imagine how you dealt with that. At the risk of appearing petty, Schnauzers are hunds not hounds. Did you ever get a new hund?

No, I haven't been in a living situation where I could get another dog. I remarried about 10 years ago, and my wife is a decided cat person. We have a great cat, but it doesn't replace my Schnauzers. You are right that Schnauzers are hunds, or more correctly hunden -- kleine hunden, to be exact. (Although I spent 5 years living in Germany, my German is pretty rusty from disuse.)
I've also wondered whatever happened to Carl_Eber? I miss his posts and willingness to stand toe-to-toe against anyone.

Did he make too many enemies and stop posting, or has he moved on to bigger and better things? I learned a lot from him.

Tim Wat
If Carl wants to come back and take a swing, I'm ready.

Really though, people who resort to bullying and name calling should be told to go out in the yard and play, which they were.

If you identify with that level of maturity, then you identify it with censorship. If you've grown up, its an iiritant who needs a spanking.

Yes, I'd like to see some more funny people, and am the first one to get provacative, but I think we all know where the line is. Certainly, I'm not willing to tolerate someone a bit funny whose barter for that chuckle is that he/she gets to cognitively beat up on someone because they are stronger.

Anonymous name callers are the worst type and I say good riddance.
I enjoy reading and learning from the past postings of those mentioned by Sdcampbell and others. He's right that there has been a decline in activity. It's a lot easier to enjoy a consumer-oriented recreational activity when things are going well. For the past few years, that hasn't been the case.

In the electronics and entertainment industries, the last few years have seen a shift in consumer interest from recorded music to the Internet, progressive consolidation of ownership of radio stations into the hands of a small number of companies offering reduced variety in broadcasting, and sales of mass-market HT gear in big-box stores marginalizing sales of two-channel audio equipment by more traditional retailers. The same years have also seen the growth of Internet file-swapping, ongoing declines in CD sales, consolidations among recording companies, shrinking opportunities for new artists, and reductions in recording companies' catalogs of classical and jazz recordings. Recording companies are busy trying to close the barn door after the horse is out, by implementing more and more intrusive copy protection schemes. At the same time, two-channel audio equipment manufacturers seem to be shifting their offerings toward the more expensive end of the market, reflecting the reality that wealthy consumers are getting tax cuts while middle class consumers are getting right-sized and outsourced out of their jobs.

This is just part of a broader picture. During the past few years, we've seen an unsuccessful attempt to impeach a US President, the bursting of the tech bubble, the onset of a recession, a US Presidential election with disputed results, loss of investor confidence in financial markets following the Enron and Wordcom financial scandals, growing unemployment, and a reliance on interest rate cuts and upper-income tax cuts for economic stimulus at a time when industrial capacity is underutilized and opportunities for profitable investment are limited.

We have also seen the collapse of Mideast peace talks and renewal of violent confrontations between the Palestinians and Israel, the 9/11 terrorist attacks, and an inconclusive war which overthrew the Taliban but allowed key Al Qaeda leaders to escape. We are now watching a steady erosion of rights in the name of security, a drift toward war with Iraq in the face of opposition from many other countries, and a risk of war with North Korea.

I do not pretend to be a pundit, and nobody reads an audio web site looking for analysis of current events. It's enough to say that times are hard, people have a lot on their minds, and many who used to have disposable income beyond their immediate needs are no longer so comfortable. During times like this, it's probably natural for interest in a consumer-oriented recreational activity organized around luxury goods to decline. Whatever our viewpoints, on the audiophile hobby or current events, I think most of us are hoping that we will see a return to prosperity and security in the future, that things will get better, and that we can go back to thinking about things like audio equipment instead of worrying about jobs, terrorist attacks or war.

Judging from the number of posts on this thread, I think that Sdcampbell touched on something that a lot of people have noticed and been concerned about. It's up to those of us who are still interested to find a way to keep our activity going. I'd sure like to keep hearing from some of the long-time regulars who have knowledge based on years of incolvement to share with the rest of us. Please keep posting!
02pete, wonderful post. Balanced, insightful, and how could underlying currents to markets be seen as irrelevant to ours?

Yes, post modern nihlism (read: the aftermath of deconstructionism of matter and mind, thereafter concluding that neither has a ground, resulting in that mind turning further into its focus on the accumulation of matter-products, e.g. capitalism) has run headlong into the notion that "democracy" must be sustained by active citizenry; sustaining a balance between our self-interest and other-interest (empathic identification), but not slipping to a predatory degree that we see every "other" as their prey.

We presently have developed an assumption in western society that infinite greed is "good", and we even make such people our icons and golden calves, but that is a far cry from the mutually reinforced self interest leading to happiness (conceptualized at the time to denote meaning and pleasure)that Smith, Locke et al, our so-called founders, envisioned.

The balance between freedom ("democracy") and self-interest ("capitalism")is a delicate one, and when the minds that constitute "society" cycle into pleasure to avoid the fact that democracy is inherently participatory, then that lack of involvement results in a de-evolvement, namely, back to a feudal past where the King told you he would keep you safe if you let him have power over you (the so-called "Imperial Presidency").

Our species (yes, I'm going that far!), as a group (society) has gone through a progressive pattern of development: from kinship (nomadic clans), to tribe, to polis, to state, to nation-state, to... In each of these shifts the individual in the group, through a conformism to the assumptions of the group, changed his identification to the "other", each time expanding to include more minds that were not like his. This an evolutionary telos that all of our "things", I would submit, are not powerful enough to impede. That we cycle into a progressive attachment to our "things", well, can't be too good...

Hiend audio, although recreational (pleasure), is also, deeper, a search for the beauty in music (meaning). In a group of minds cycling in denial through accumulation of an attachmnet to things, and the assumed power and safety it provides, the experiences of freedom, beauty, meaning, empathy-to-other etc. become progressively marginalized.

Now, 02pete, don't you feel better that they now have someone else, a much better target, to accuse of "going to deep"!

Keep posting 02pete.
Perhaps the "moderators" have discouraged them?
Right on Unsound!
Unsound, I understand your concerns; as you can see above, I'm hardly one to tolerate censorship. My experience has been that people who wanted to beat up on other people have been deterred by 1)the moderators, and 2) some people, like myself, not putting up with them and calling them on it, on a conceptual level.

On the "deep" thing, I think its important to realize that it does have a chilling effect on some people, especially the way I do it sometimes (as above, not like 02pete's). I try to keep this in mind and not "weigh" those others down too early in a thread, or wait until it seems that others of similar inclination have congregated, or the thread is losing its juice. Generally speaking, on content, as opposed to tone, I've found the moderators to be quite indulgent of me.

If you keep it to the ideas, even deep or momentary tangential ideas, then I think you are just fine; if you choose to use superior cognitive agility to talk someone else down coupled with derogatory language, then you get their attention. If you get personal, regardless of merit of thought, you are paid more focused attention until a pattern emerges on that behavior.

I'm pretty provacative - and I'm sure some have complained when they didn't get their way - so I don't think that's the trigger. Its basically decorum, respect and maturity, and, I would submit, those are qualities that any radical egalitarian would be proud of.
Asa, I'm guilty of speculating on an unfounded premise, but my gut tells me the root of what I consider to be over zealous moderating is money. Either the money that could be tied up in legal problems and/or the money that could be possibly lost in revenue. While I have to respect the fact that it's not directly my money, it still concerns me that freedom of speech can be bought and sold, no matter how indirectly. It's upsetting to think that we might have to resort to strategies to convey ideas in order to share the beauty of music.
Asa, I'm guilty of speculating on an unfounded premise, but my gut tells me the root of what I consider to be over zealous moderating is money. Either the money that could be tied up in legal problems and/or the money that could be possibly lost in revenue. While I have to respect the fact that it's not directly my money, it still concerns me that freedom of speech can be bought and sold, no matter how indirectly. It's upsetting to think that we might have to resort to strategies to convey ideas in order to share the beauty of music.