What would you do?

I sold a Meridian 508.24 to a member, and upon his first week of ownership, I called to see how he was making out with his new CDP. He told me that the unit skipped and because he did a lot of recording that he could not use it. He stated that he wouldn't feel right about selling something that he knew had a problem.
After hearing him out I agreed to take it back and see for myself what the problem was.I told him that he need to isolate the unit and he came back with, "I own B&W's 800 and I know what I am doing."
Upon getting the unit I played three hours on it with no problems. I knew it wouldn't skip but felt I needed to go the extra mile with him.
I called him and told him there was no skipping when played for three hours. He stated that he couldn't use it. I sent his money back and E-Mailed him and told him I wanted to leave him a negitive feedback. I have yet to leave him feedback.
I sold the unit and lost money on the sale.
There are many members out there that have alot of wisdom on deals like this. What would you do?


I suspect your buyer would retaliate with negative feedback as well. Is it worth tarnishing your perfect feedback? Don't do business with him again.
If you leave him negative feedback he will come up with negative feedback for you. Some people are just hard to please. I feel you did the right thing by giving him the money back. I’m glad that most of the deals I've done on Agon have been a great experience. It's fun to talk with other audio nuts. Take your lose and chalk it up as experience.
I'm not understanding. You have your equipment back after you asked if he was happy and found out that he was not. If you do not ask to take it back then you do not get to take it back. If you are trying to please him at all costs this is what happens. It seems as though nothing happened that you did not allow. Maybe it did skip. Maybe he did not know how to isolate. Maybe you should have sold it "as-is'? Protect yourself first by clarifying the terms under which you will receive a return and how long you will allow this option.

If you offer a choice, then do not be unhappy if someone does not pick the option you prefer. Most will act in their own economic self-interest if given a choice. You made the offer right? He made his choice.

I would not leave negative feedback because it appears you volunteered for this situation to a significant degree . You could have just left him with his "as-is" purchase. I think you did a good thing! But leaving the unit was not a bad thing either. Just the deal that was made. Neverheless I would expect him to repay the cost of the ad and any shipping you paid. In other words you should have your equipment all you invested in the transaction back. If he does not, then I leave negative feedback. Then go and repost the equipment for sale and be very specific about what you will and will not do. Both buyer and seller need to understand what they are agreeing to. Exchange some e-mails on the subject. Be clear and be consistent. Make yourself happy with the transaction too.
If no Audiogon members ever leave negative feedback when it's deserved, then no members will ever know with whom they should be cautious, and the Audiogon feedback system will wither and die out of ineffectiveness.
I thought that you had to accept feedback before it was posted on the new feedback system.............
It already has withered and died Grant. How many negative feedbacks do you see out there now? The buyer would have to approve of the negative feedback that Gary would want to post on him for it to go through the system anyway. Who is going to approve negative feedback of themselves?

Hence the new look on AudiogoN. It's very hard to find someone with negative feedback anymore. If they do have it, it is from an older source, that predates the new, current AudiogoN feedback system.

John, sadly all that you write is true.
...sleep better at night...

I think you did the right thing. When stung by such a "tire kicker" you must make the call about negative feedback--others would appreciate knowing, but you risk a "feedback battle".

best regards,
i took a preamp(AI) back after it was too sensitive for the buyers amp... he paid for the shipping there and back and a new ad. the preamp was in the same condition as i sent it...

I am really surprised the guy didnt contact you if the unit was skipping...it sounds like you went beyond the call of duty (ie the buyer didnt like it)..

it is important to look at a buyers feedback in any transaction...

Why negative feedback? You agreed to take back the unit based on his claim, you probably knew his claim was probably unfounded when you agreed. Even then there was still the possibility it skipped for him based on how he did or didn't isolate the player. Finally, why did you sell for a loss, did you accept less than you wanted? That is not his fault.

I am not trying to be difficult but these types of transactions are going to happen, and they suck. All you can do is bite the bullet, do the right thing and accept back the gear. Don't dwell on it and move on.

Relax and enjoy,
If I uderstand the new Audiogon feedback system correctly you have the opportunity to show the rest of us just how fair it is. It may take some time to see the results though. You first will need to follow the feedback process. Audiogon will then contact the buyer. The buyer will naturally protest the negative feedback. Audiogon then will notify you I presume. I assume they will ask for your reason for leaving the negative feedback. If they do indeed agree with you the buyer will receive the negative feedback. If he tries to leave you a negative in return the same process is repeated. Imo Audiogon should not leave the negative feedback on you.

You are the test!

You did the honorable thing which is a notable characteristic of most members of Audiogon. Feel good about knowing you did the honorable thing.
Can anyone explain the concept of the new AGon feedback system.
They asked about it before they instituted it, we said it was lousy, and it has subsequently proven to be as predicted.
So.... what was the reason for the change, and does nyone have a positive experience with it?
How about "neutral" feedback? I think there is still a category for that in the new system.
whats the matter with filing a dispute with audiogon that way you get to tell your story & the buyer gets to tell his side of the story.

Good question
If he paid to ship the unit back, personally, I would leave it alone.
In one sense you are fortunate that the unit came back in one piece. For all we know there may have been a bunch of horny gorillias jumpin around his living room.
remember who the guy is and dont sale to him ever.sale your cd player again and move on..80% of the people of the world live in a negative world,the othere 20% hides from them,,good luck
It is clear from the way you handled the situation you are an excellent seller. It is also clear from the way he handled it he is a less than an optimal buyer. But negative feedback? Not when he only took you up on your offer to return the Meridian. I don't see that he breached any agreement, even if you don't like what he did with the options you gave him. Neutral feedback is the strongest I would give, but really I think I'd let the whole thing drop and chalk it up to experience.
I also have to say that negative feedback doesn't really seem warranted. By accepting the unit back you are basically saying that you believe his claim of skipping. If the unit was returned to you in the condition that you sent it out and you were able to sell it I don't really see a problem. Why did you lose money? It may be that the buyer was less than polite which is unfortunate, but not worthy of negative feedback. Perhaps neutral feedback would be more appropriate?
i also agree, that you agreed to take the unit back, which is something that i would not have done personally, i wouldn't sell a defective unit in the first place, so anything that is damaged after it leaves your hands is really not your responsibility. i don't see how any type of negative feedback is warranted.
You know your CDP better than I, If I know the player is
in good shape and does not skip,and this buyer is claiming
is skipping,I will do the same, I will take it back and
prove it to myself.After three hours of no skip, then the
buyer probably just did not like it.I will call Him back
and tell Him the CDP did not skip for 3 hours of play,
And I would like to hear from Him, what kind a reaction
I will get from Him,Ussually you could tell if the person
is lying.If I find out,He is not honest, I will give Him
a negative feedback, and email all my audiophile buddies,
and warn them about this buyer.Audiogon a good place to buy
and sell,we dont need those, who are not honest enough to
accept the truth, I am sure If the buyer said,I am sorry
I did not like the sound,the outcome could have been
diferrent.My humble opinion.
Snofun3, I believe the reason for the change was so that AudiogoN did not have to be bothered handling dispute cases anymore. Now the buyer/seller must approve/dissaprove feedback before it is posted. If they approve, feedback is posted. If they dissapprove I believe the feedback issue just dies. I don't think there is any dispute resolution process anymore.
The new system was created to save the AudiogoN staff the headaches of dispute resolution, not for the consumers benefit.

I haven't noticed anyone with negative feedback since the new system has been put in place. So it seems that most folks will not approve of negative feedback posted towards themselves. Shocking discovery, eh?
Thanks John - I agree that was the intent of the new system, but does it do anyone any good? What's the point of feedback now?

I'm everyone's Mom said that "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it", but when we're looking at investments of thousands of dollars, it's nice to know that we're getting an accurate representation of the seller.

And what did AGon ever do regarding disputes anyway?
You state that "you lost money on the deal" but really how much are we talking here? Is it just shipping and handling fees? Please bear in mind that this is a very popular unit and you should have no problem re-selling the unit.

I believe that you did the right thing, but it does sound to me that the unit is isolation sensitive and perhaps there is just a smidgeon of culpability on you rpart for not imparting caveat emptor (although to be truthful, I don't believe I've seen any ads that have included this warning for Meridian players).

I would leave a neutral feedback for the buyer. Given the circumstances as presented, I feel leaving a negative feedback is a little to harsh as there are some mitigating factors.
Post a neutral feedback. I did this to Tom in Ithaca, who sold me a pair of speakers that were "mint" yet had a noticable ding on one corner at the bottom. He claimed he could not see it! Yeah,I moved on, and the Audiogon system did accept the neutral feedback. He left no feedback for me, since he was busy counting my money...... What could he say? My money got there too quick? :)
I have this Tandberg 3008A preamp; I was screwed by the Audiogon seller and in the middle of a the dispute process. the only way to battle these irreponsible buyers, and sellers, is to use the feedback system. Go for it.

You should definitely leave feedback; simply state the facts with nothing subjective. The truth is always the best and all that rot.
As long as you got your unit back and it is in the same condition as when you sold, why would you complain about it? After all you sold it again. What you should have agreed on in the first place is if you take the player back, he would pay all the fees - your sales ad fee, shipping cost and whatever else was involved. As far as I'm concerned, he should be greatfull that you took it back and leave you a positive feedback. If you try to leave him a negative feedback it won't be fair, because you made an offer to him to take it back. The player does not skip, so he didn't like the way it sounded, but I am not sure if he would demand his money back if you hadn't contacted him first. This is just another lesson for all of us I guess.
Careful with your criticism of the Audiogon feedback system boys...this thread will go "poof" like so many others if you criticize the mother ship.
Glory, It is your call. At the very least he deserves a neutral feedback. I just reread your post again and imo you did nothing wrong. I have only sold 2 items here on Audiogon, an Adcom 565 preamp and an Audio Research LS3 preamp. I too after about a week contacted the buyers and asked them how the units were working. Imo your buyer either had buyer remorse or the unit did not mate well with his CD recorder. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned here, don't ask if they like the equipment. You opened the door, and apparently he rushed right in. I can guarantee if I or anyone else who has posted here had bought the CDp from you, and it was skipping you would have been emailed or called immediately. I would not have waited for you to call me!


Audiophile1 very good post,why did the buyer even need
to lie to the seller,when in fact it does not skip,
If I were the buyer,I will just sell it, to make
the seller happy,the problem of this buyer, He is
not very honest.Partly the buyer took advantage of
the kindness of the seller.Of course who want to do
business with this buyer, I wont.
This is a response to John's earlier message which I failed to pick up on. If what you say is correct, eg that the person who's had the negative feedback assigned to him / her has to be approve of it for it to be posted...then you are 100% correct: that does defeat the whole purpose.
Just let me know wich unit it is so it doesnt end up skipping in my system! Um sorry had to throw out a joke, just on a side note if anyone took a question you ask in hopes of helping him and said

"I own B&W's 800 and I know what I am doing."
That woulda red flagged the whole conversation for me, and anyway how does that make him qualified for anything other than a coffee mug from B&W? By the way I gave my mug away to a guy who has the 801 because ....well he is smarter than me.
I agree Chad.Thats funny, can you also send me a mug,
so I will become smart?Like my friend say, If you lie
do it right.
You have been an exemplary seller. There is nothing wrong with contacting a buyer to see if they are happy. Opens the door to questions they might have about the operation of the unit and exchange of general audiophile chit-chat, which is why we are all here in the first place, is it not?

My sense is that the guy got buyer's remorse. Maybe he saw a deal he liked better somewhere and was gnashing his teeth at jumping at yours too soon. When you contacted him he saw a way out and didn't give two hoots about your frustration. That comment about owning 800s sounds very defensive IMHO.

Either you can just let it go and move on, or you can do something. My sense is that you would rather do something, which is why you posted here. Anybody who criticizes you for that should mind their own business.

I think you should ask the buyer what he is using to make the copies he says are skipping and then see if you can make a few yourself. If the copying software/machine is something you can't get your hands on, maybe somebody in one of these forums can help. Put up a post explaining your position and I am sure you will get an offer of help somewhere. You are just the kind of guy we all want to do business with. If there is still no skipping, contact the buyer, restate your position that the player does not skip and tell him that you would like compensation for the shipping charges. There is no reason you should be out anything but time and frustration just because this guy is behaving like a girl.

As for the bad feedback, don't rely on the opinions you are seeing posted here. Contact audiogon and tell them what is going on. Tell them you feel you are justified in laying bad feedback on this guy, but that you are worried he will retaliate. This would be a good way to find out if the new feedback system is as worthless as some posters here seem to feel it is.

Good luck.
To think all this time all I needed was a coffee mug.. Kind of reminds me of the straw man. Who da thunk!

Oh by the way I like the new home trial policy some here are advocating.
Jay I would love to send you a mug, I am just too stupid to remember where I put it....dooooghhhh
Hey Baddabob, all the things you said apply to audiogon if it was around in the 19th century. People now don't care about someone elses frustration. They tend to take advantage of your kindness. So, just like I said, lesson learned, train is gone. Forget about it and move on.
Glory (Gary) asked for advice. You gave yours, I gave mine. Why don't we just let him make up his own mind rather than argue with each other over what is the right thing to do.
Baddabob, you're absolutely right!!!!