what would you do?

What would you do if you bought a amp from supposedly reputable dealer and found out a year and a half later it wasnt the amp you bought at all but one of a totally different serial number and ? Wouldnt you think the dealer would know sometimes in that time period they sold the wrong amp to you? I the consumer am only buying one item if he has several amps similar he logs them by serial number therefore he knew he sold the wrong amp but said nothing, how is that even legal? it's a sad day when you cant trust the dealers on audiogon.
More info would b nice.
upscale audio, cary v12i
Ask if they'd upgrade it to a V12R due to the oversite.
After 1.5 years, not much you can do. Bringing it to their attention will fall on deaf ears. How do you know it's the wrong serial number?
A V12 is marked V12. V12I is marked with an I and a V12R is marked with an R. How did you and/or your friend not know for a year and a half? No one looked at the serial numbers or the faceplate? It's probably too late to do anything now, but maybe you could get them to spring for an upgrade to a V12R. They're a very nice amp, but run very hot. I'm just not sure how the consumer and the seller both dropped the ball. Best of luck.
"what would you do?"

I can tell what I wouldn't do, which is to start three threads on the same subject.

Beyond that, you need to provide more info as Tpreaves suggests. How is this the wrong amp? Is it simply a matter of the wrong serial number being transcribed on the receipt? Or two amps of the same model being misboxed?

And if the same model amp is involved, how is your friend being harmed by this? Has the dealer refused warranty service or otherwise refused to address any issue beyond the serial number? Is the amp new or used?

No one can give provide any meaningful advice until you provide more information.
Are you saying that the amp's serial number did not match the serial number on your receipt and/or box?
Of course you should bring it to their attention. It Maybe an honest mistake. But Not sure it really matters? If you wanted a Cary v12i amp, and got one-why does it matter if the serial number is different from the serial number on the v12i amp you wanted-was there a difference? It sucks when we dont get what we paid for...
I'm curious as to what Kevin said when you brought this to his attention. I've been a customer for many years and have had 100% positive experience with him, so I'd be more than a bit surprised if he hasn't been responsive to you. Did he have an explanation (maybe one that was unsatisfactory)?

But why a year and half later on your part is the real question and why a year and a half later does it matter to you now?
Checks should have been done as soon as the amp was received. I don't think your friend has a leg to stand on since it has been over 1 year. Some high volume dealers may mix stuff up but most of the time if they deal in high volume they have good inventory control.

Also as long as they got a Cary v12i amp and not a totally different amp then what is wrong if the serial numbers are different? Is each Cary amp customized or is this amp a collectors item where having a lower number from the run matters? I'm just confused as to how the serial numbers would really matter in this situation.

Your friend could try to talk to Upscale Audio but even then what can they do? The other Cary v12i with the serial # might have been sold already. It has also been over a year.

I think your friend may just have to enjoy the amp he has.
Why did it take you a year and a half to figure out the purchase was wrong, and why come on pinging a dealer without asking him first?
This is the 3rd post on this subject in 2 days. I have known Upscale Audio to be a fair and honest business. I recommend you discuss your complaint with Kevin.
dude are you trippin?
It would be nice if you put all 3 of your post into one detailed post.

One and half years ago you bought a Cary V12i from Upscale Audio as per your sales receipt.

Fast forward to today. You want to sell your Cary V12 and you discover that it is fact the previous generation Cary V12 without the “I” inspired circuit.

A year and half is a long time. Who is say that you didn’t sell your V12i and trying to scam Upscale with a story about an older V12? Not saying this is the case, but you must respect the retailer’s perspective. Ideally, Upscale will have both serial numbers in their inventory and can figure out what happened.

Upscale Audio is a respected dealer. I have bought equipment from Kevin and would recommend him to others. There is always two sides to every story. Good luck.
Sorry but just a little confused. Who buys amps based on a serial number? Every piece of equipment that I have bought new was by a model number; not serial number. If the carton was sealed, good enough for me. The only time I could see this being important is if you were buying a used amp and there were two identical ones out of their boxes that you auditioned. You liked one better than the other, picked it, and the serial number was the only way to differentiate between the two. Was this the case? Was it a used purchase? I cannot imagine in a new purchase a serial number would matter as long as you got the right model you were purchasing. Am I wrong? If so, can someone tell me why?
Take it as a moral lesson. That "I" did not bother to check what I actually bought. So just accept it as a life experience.
You are going to need a lot more proof to paint Upscale audio as anything but a A+ dealer. What did Kevin say when you called him, that's all that matters.

Several years ago I bought a blemished (B stock) record cleaner from him at a discount. When i drove out to his shop to pick it up, his staff couldnt find the B stock item so they sold me an A stock at the same price.

Phenomenal customer service.
Elizabeth, as much sense as that makes, I get the feeling that accountability will be lost on on our friend.
Polk432 is right on the money. Some interesting links:

Cary SA280 V-12 manual: http://www.caryaudio.com/pdfs/manuals_archive/Cad280SA_V12.pdf

Cary SA280 V-12i manual:http://www.caryaudio.com/pdfs/manuals_archive/Cad280SA_V12i.pdf

Note that the V-12i manual is labeled as such.

But wait, there's more! Check out the pic in this ad for a Cary SAs80 V-12: http://new.audiogon.com/listings/5592

Now see the pic in this ad of a Cary SA280 V-12i: http://new.audiogon.com/listings/32288

Serial numbers aside, how could this guy not know what amp he had when its model designation was written right on the front of it - and also on the cover of the owner's manual?
Spring for a new V12I or V12R faceplate, just don't sell it to me.
Not dealer's problem - yours. You should have verified when you received the amp and discussed with the dealer then. Not now. Sorry, way too late. Dealers are people too. People make mistakes. Bring it to their attention within a reasonable time frame (1.5 years is not reasonable; more like within a few days of receiving the piece) and give them a chance to resolve.

Had you done this 1.5 years ago and the dealer not resolve, only then would I consider the dealer a dirty player.
The old bait and switch or maybe the shipping department made the error of sending you the wrong amp. I would expect better from a dealer and its too bad it took over a year to discover.

A few years back and reluctantly I purchased an Aragon 4004 MKII off EBAY. After receiving the amp I noticed the MKII sticker was not on the back of the amp. Contacted the seller and he said the sticker had fallen off a while back. I determined later it was not the MKII but I was charged the higher price for the this version. I have not made any more purchases on EBAY. "The EBAY gang rides again!"
I buy and sell quite often on ebay and you should always use a credit card tied to paypal. You could have gotten a full refund. In fact, ebay sides up way too much with the buyer. A few years ago I paid for a full set of Walking Liberty half dollars and received 2 full sets 1200 per set by accident. I called the dealer and asked them to pay the shipping cost for the return of the 2nd set. A few days after I returned the 2nd set, the dealer sent me a thank you letter and a check for 500.00
"The old bait & switch" Upscale Audio is not ebay pot luck.

And, as others have said how could the poster not realize for a year and a half that he received the "wrong amp"?
This guy posted the same thread to several forums. Shame on him.

As the owner of Upscale Audio, I spoke to this fellow yesterday. Let me make a few points:

A: He bought it over a year and a half ago. He needed to contact us in a reasonable time.

B: The unit serial number he has I have no record of owning, buying, shipping, whatever. Having said that, maybe we screwed the pooch and made a mistake.

C: The unit he bought and paid for had damage, having a dented transformer cover. It was discounted and priced as a damaged unit. It evens said that on our used listing which is copied directly onto his invoice. He fails to tell you this. What he received is mint. He conveniently leaves this out.

D: Check the Audiogon bluebook, and the V12 and V12i are not even listed seperate. They retail the same and share the same listing on the bluebook value. Why? They have the same topology. The V12i used a front end tube with less gain, making it harder to drive. This was changed back when the V12i became the V12R.

We have thrived over these last 17 years and enjoy a pretty good reputation. We're the largest tube dealer in the nation. We stock ten times more gear than most dealers. But when you deal with tens of thousands of customers, you will for sure either make mistakes or deal with the unreasonable.

Best to all of you

Kevin Deal
"Stupid is as stupid does" - Forrest Gump
Me, I wouldn't post three threads on the subject, I would chalk it up to a lack of awareness. What's the old saying, "Trust but verify?" Some lessons are a little more expensive than others.

Hey look at all of those that bought from an outfit called, "The Audio Pimp" and were then shocked and awed that the deals turned sour.
Usually the over-active moderators stop even legitimate activity.

Time to make 52tiger go away. Seems like troll and scam artist.
Three post,,,sounds like a temper tantrum!
What 52tiger should have done has been made very clear at this point. What I suggest you do now is talk to Kevin Deal and not one of his employees if you have not done so already. If Kevin told you that it was too late to do anything about it I would call Cary and see if there is anything they can do about it.

The amp should still be under warranty if you bought it new. If you registered it with Cary I assume the warranty card would have the serial number on it and it would not match the serial number on your receipt. If they are both dated within 90 days of one another, I think Cary would want to straighten the matter out.

If neither Kevin nor Cary are interested then you have to take the hit and learn from it. I doubt the police want to get involved.
Kevin sums it up nicely. It seems like an appropriate and measured response from the retailer involved.
Show the dealer to the hall of shame, which leads to audio hell.
Solid response from the dealer - "And know you know the REST of the story," as Paul Harvey used to say. It seems that the purchaser did in fact receive the benefit of his bargain and that Kevin doesn't owe him squat.

Going forward, I would only suggest Kevin follow up with Cary on the serial number provided by the purchaser, if for no other reason than to see if something did in fact go awry in terms of his company's tracking of inventory.

But other than that, this one done. Next.
You know what I like about Kevin Deal, he's got the balls to come on a forum like this and defend himself when he thinks he has been unnecessarily abused. Somewhat rare. That, if nothing else, seperates him from the herd. He doesn't seem to like 'freeloaders" or idiots either, but that wouldn't stop me from dealing with him if he has something I need to buy. I don't call him for free advise though. :-)
Maybe some evil trickster audiophile firend broke into the person's home and STOLE his real amp and substituted the older model. A jealous audiophile might just do that...
Kevin calls them as he's see them. He's always been honest and fair in my book. Long may he run...
My goodness! Somebody start a new thread already! Which brings 52tiger to mind. BTW, where is the shit disturber?
Facten, you should understand that I had no idea which dealer 52tiger was refering to in his thread until you mentioned this dealers name in your post. Further investigation out of curiosity would reveal this dealers name in another thread. Trust me, if you were to start a thread with the subject matter on who has been burned on audio purchases, I'm sure everyone has a story of some sort.

I have personally done business with Kevin Deal in the past and I can tell you he is very professional and honest.
what would you do?

Contact the Agon moderator and ask him/her to please delete your three threads.

Maybe I'm wrong but wanted to get the communities thoughts. A good friend of mine bought a Cary amp from upscale audio it was supposed to be a v12 i. That was a year and a half ago recently he was going to sell it and was looking at the receipt from them and the serial numbers dont match at all!! totally different amp not even a i series. well he called them and they told him there was nothing they would do. I have never checked the serial number on anything I have bought but will from now on.My friend assumed he was getting what he paid for but did not! You would think they knew somewhere along the line they sold him the wrong amp . anyway whats your thoughts.
52tiger (Threads | Answers | This Thread)


C: The unit he bought and paid for had damage, having a dented transformer cover. It was discounted and priced as a damaged unit. It evens said that on our used listing which is copied directly onto his invoice. He fails to tell you this. What he received is mint. He conveniently leaves this out.
11-28-12: Upscaleaudio

11-28-12: P59teitel
Polk432 is right on the money. Some interesting links:

Cary SA280 V-12 manual: www.caryaudio

Cary SA280 V-12i manual:www.caryaudio

Note that the V-12i manual is labeled as such.

But wait, there's more! Check out the pic in this ad for a Cary SAs80 V-12: new.audiogon

Now see the pic in this ad of a Cary SA280 V-12i: new.audiogon

Serial numbers aside, how could this guy not know what amp he had when its model designation was written right on the front of it - and also on the cover of the owner's manual?


How do you explain your posted message of 11-27-12 and Kevin's response on 11-28-12?

And then there is the post of P59teitel on 11-28-12......
How could your friend not of noticed the difference?

Your good friend may not be such a good friend after all....
Get the CAD 120's. Its better than any of the V models. Make sure to put tubes in it before playing it, and whatever you do, check those F'N serial numbers!