Have we forgotten anybody? Wow! We forgot CD treatments! How can CD treatments possibly work with Reed Solomon Error Codes and the laser servo system guarding the door? An obvious fraud perpetrated on gullible and anxious audiophiles.
What’s your vote for the most ridiculous, overpriced, and useless tweak?
My vote: Furutech Outlet Cover 105 NCF $220, with “special crystalline material that has two “active” properties.” https://www.thecableco.com/outlet-cover-105-ncf.html
Showing 50 responses by geoffkait
Let’s see, have we forgotten anybody? Oh, geez, we forgot the Intelligent Chip! It knows when a CD has already been treated. Not to mention it works by remote control. Hel-loo! You place the Intelligent Chip on top of the CD player and let the music play for 2 seconds. Voila! The CD is permanently treated. The original Intelligent Chip was carried by Golden Sound but came from China. |
The new Apple Corp. giant UFO HQ building is isolated on huge slip plates/bearings. This might not sound like a big deal but the Apple Corp. HQ building is one mile in circumference. The question is did Tim Cook decide to isolate the HQ building for earthquake protection OR so employees could enjoy the benefits of isolation whilst they listen to their desktop systems or headphones or whatever? |
Glubson Back to Mpingo discs. Anyone mentioned them? geoffkait15,883 posts06-07-2019 7:02amHere are some examples of preposterous-sounding tweaks that are either free (hel-loo!) or don’t cost an arm and a leg. 💪 🦵 Silver Rainbow Foil, the Green Pen, Mpingo Disc (OK, so the price has gone up a lot in the last twenty years but the used price is not too bad), freezing things at home for two days, getting rid of all magazines, newspapers, extraneous trash, Black Pen on inner edge of CD, storing all CDs vertically, tying adjacent cables and cords into a square knot, removing all cell phones from the room. I met the Mook Bros. Bet you’re jealous. I’ve also reversed engineered a Mpingo Disc. Bet that makes you jealous, too. |
bdp24 Listening to the same J.S. Bach or Mozart piece twice in a row increases my pleasure in hearing it, as I better understand it. And it’s free! >>>>One man’s pleasure is another man’s torture. 😩 |
whostolethebatmobile Could there be two broad categories of tweak? One which reveals something new in the sound/music which you have never noticed before, and one which increases pleasure but does not necessarily reveal anything new or previously un-noticed. I don’t think the PWB free tweaks revealed anything new to me about the recording, even though I was enjoying the listening experience more than usual. >>>>The short answer is yes, you could have tweaks that affect the audio signal directly and those that affect the sound indirectly or subconsciously. But there is no difference *subjectively* between a PWB tweak and a amplifier or a better speaker cable or room treatment. I’m not sure I agree tweaks are supposed to hit you over the head. Wouldn’t it be great if they always did? A lot is system and listener dependent. An experienced audiophile would be hard pressed to determine what produced changed in sound X. Was it a better cable, better fuse, room treatment, CD treatment or PWB tweak? We all have our own ideas of what SHOULD produce big results and those that won’t produce any results, or very subtle results. There isn’t any difference between “the sound” and “the perception of the sound.” There’re the same thing. It’s not that easy to define musicality. We all have our theories of what that means. If you did not hear a change in the sound why else would you experience the experience as better? Were you high? When May says the sound was in the room all the time and that you just couldn’t hear it completely or accurately until you trying PWB Tweak X it because your subconscious is involved with how you hear, I.e., your sensory perception of sound. Thus, hearing is not (rpt not) simply the result of acoustic waves in the air striking the ear and traveling up to the brain. It’s much more complex than that. That’s so mundane. Much of it involves the subconscious, which is how most PWB tweaks work. They do not affect the audio signal somewhere in the system or room like almost all tweaks. PWB tweaks affect the sound indirectly, you could say. It’s not “psychological” or random because PWB tweaks are repeatable and transferable. That’s a very quick summary of a concept that is very complicated, so please cut me some slack. 😛 |
When May says pleasure she is referring to the sound. “Sound,” “the perception of sound,” “our sense of sound” are all equivalent. You cannot separate them. One would experience more pleasure from a more musical sound, no? Your perception of sound changes. That’s really equivalent to saying the sound itself changes. Music soothes the savage breast. You could say the sound is on the CD but the sound changes when some tweaks are applied. It’s kind of the same argument inasmuch as the data on the CD cannot be altered. If you drink a couple of beers your perception of the sound probably changes, too, |
Uh, you guys must be slipping by not mentioning Peter Belt very much, if at all. Peter Belt’s products have, over the years, epitomized what many audiophiles perceive to be the high water mark 🔝for preposterous, ridiculous, bizarre, far out and inexplicable audio tweaks. One need look no further than Silver Rainbow 🌈 Foil, those teeny, tiny little holographic foils that are stuck onto barcodes on CDs, barcodes on books, COMPACT DISC logos on CDs, etc. to get an inkling of just how off the charts the Belt stuff really is. Not that I think his stuff doesn’t work. Surely the Belt stuff must put a bee 🐝 in somebody’s bonnet. |
As much as I distain disagreement the salt lamp doesn't do anything to the sound IMO. I had someone measure the number of negative ions produced by the salt lamp and the number is zero. Now, I'm not saying salt isn't a pyroelectric material, but the bulb in the salt lamp doesn't generate sufficient heat to produce negative ions. even tripling the wattage of the bulb still does not produce any ions. But the lamps are pretty, I'll grant you that. |
Round 2 of Are these tweaks overpriced? You decide. The Quantum Clip from PBW Electronics 500 Pounds, that’s price not weight. Chunky Black Pen for marking inner edge of CDs 100 💯 Pounds Audio Magic Beeswax Fuse $250 I realize speakers are not tweaks but does anyone think $650,000 is too much money 💰💰 for the new Wilson WAMMs? |
I’m going to help you guys out a little bit. Here’s some food for thought regarding iconic audiophile tweaks that might possibly be a tad overpriced. You decide. Schumann Frequency Generator from Acoustic Revive $800 Tiny Little Bowl resonators set of 3 in pure gold, platinum and silver $3000 Minus K Isolation stand $3000 Vibraplane isolation stand $3000 Furutech LP demagnetizer $2700 |
Getting back to the subject for just a second I actually don’t see why some cable elevators cost an arm and a leg as suspending/isolating them with fishing line from eye 👁 hooks in the ceiling would accomplish the same thing or more by isolating the cables from electric static fields AND vibration. There’s always Statue of Liberty souvenirs if you must have something on the floor. 🗽🗽🗽 |
For a component the damping should be applied to the transformer, capacitors and in the case of a CDP the transport mechanism. Damping the chassis is not a bad idea but doesn’t go far enough. Besides, due to the ineffectiveness of damping materials for very low frequencies, I.e., 0-20 Hz, vibration isolation is required. It would be a good idea to isolate all the printed circuit boards from the transformer or even remove the transformer. The bolts holding the transformer should be loosened or removed. It is one of the worst ideas ever to directly couple the transformer to the chassis. Other than for shipping or moving there is no reason for the transformer to be bolted to the chassis. Put springs under it. Since the entire building and everything in it is moving right along with the seismic type vibration, the chassis is still vibrating (at very low frequencies) even after you did the best you could with damping. Since the resonant frequencies of the CD laser assembly, turntable cartridge, tonearm and platter are very low i.e., 10-12 Hz, only isolation techniques will be effective in reducing their being excited by very low frequency vibration. By isolation techniques I mean mass-on-spring or mag lev. As I oft opine, a thorough and effective plan of isolation and resonance control is required. |
Side note: there are many materials, I oft pick on Sorbothane not unfairly, but others,too, that are either sold as viscoelastic material or marketed as audiophile material that actually do more harm than good, even if there is some constrained layer damping going on there can be some energy storage going on too. The objective is to interfere as little as possible with the rapid exit of vibrations from the system whilst disallowing vibration to enter the system from the floor. I’ve oft talked about the necessity for a comprehensive plan of both vibration isolation AND resonance control. Many of these so called viscoelastic materials over do things, and even though you might admire your handiwork, you’ve committed yourself to a life of over damped sound. It’s what Acoustic Revive calls in their badly translated marketing literature, over-dumping. |
I tried to tell you. Sorbothane is one of most vile and pernicious materials ever foisted on naive gullible audiophiles. It seems like the perfect material, too. Not too hard, not too soft. Just right! Suck those offending vibrations right up!! Whoopie! 🤗 I suspect you’re just starting to see the tip of the iceberg. Wait’ll ya start playing around with springs, NASA grade ceramics, granite, constrained layer damping. Just think of all the combinations. But you have to have a plan. Otherwise, it’s just shooting blanks in the dark. |
People still get their panties in a bunch over certain words and phrases. You know, like crystalline, crystal, quantum, Graphene, artificial atoms ⚛️, directionality, anything perceived or in reality as not in the signal path, things of that nature. Most likely a simple case of neophobia. Don’t freak out and don’t get hung up. 🤗 Hey, where did all the Blind Test fanatics go? 😳 “I bet it can’t pass a double blind test!” 😛 |
cd318 Here are the words of one of the most respected figures in this industry, Harbeth’s Alan Shaw - "I have this growing feeling that there may not be one single generally held ’fact’ amongst audiophiles that is actually true and demonstrable under controlled conditions. Is it possible that the entire audiophile industry has foundations of sand? What is odd is that hard, cold physics is (obviously) brought to bear by equipment designers to create and produce physical audio equipment, but that hard, cold physics is then replaced by mythology when the product reaches the audiophile marketplace. I’m struggling now to think of one ’fact’ that could be independently validated. Can you do better than me? How did a hardware industry of the 50’s transition into a fashion industry where there are no absolutes, no norms, no frames of reference .... all opinion. Is it any wonder the industry is stagnant? Expensive blue-sky R&D is unnecessary because a new marketing spin will keep the production lines flowing with yesterday’s technology. It really is a strange business and for sure, the consumer is not benefiting." >>>>Huh? He’s struggling to think of one fact that can be independently validated? An obvious case of brain freeze. What is he even talking about? 🤔 |
kqvkq It’s easy to think that because one thinks in a certain fashion that others do as well. That’s not how it works necessarily. Some may think as you do. Some will not. Consider the quote "Anyone who thinks audio is a plug-and-play hobby doesn’t understand the problem. " For most, audio IS a plug and play hobby. Most prefer to purchase a completed and well thought out product, plug it in, and be done with it. Most normal people anyway. >>>>>Well, “most normal people” according to your definition are not really in the high end so who cares? No offense to you personally. |
astewart89444 @geoffkait I agree with @mahgister above. Thanks for the psaudio post. I admit I am in Paul’s camp. Although I have overcome some initial hesitations and tried tweaks that seemed to make some intuitive sense to me, it will probably take someone gifting me the tweak before I try any that seem bat crap crazy to me. >>>>I know what you mean. But as a matter of fact the “preposterous” tweaks PS audio reviewed in the article I linked to are actually among the least outrageous and easiest to explain tweaks that I’m aware of. That’s why I am kind of surprised Paul at PS Audio was so quick to say those tweaks seemed outrageous to him, to make a whole article out of them. And I'm also a little surprised one of his favorite expressions is, “I have no idea why it works but works it does.” It’s almost as if he’s afraid to be perceived as gullible. As I’ve oft alluded to, there are some seriously mind-blowing 🤯 tweaks out there, you know, ones that really will keep you up at night. 😳 But VPI Brick, green pen, and Mpingo Disc are, frankly, Child’s Play. Nothing to get hung about. Anyone who thinks audio is a plug-and-play hobby doesn’t understand the problem. |
PS Audio - “Fear of Tweaks” (tales of the intrepid high end electronics designer and his adventures into the Great Beyond) teaser: PS Audio Fear of Tweaks Change can be tough for me, especially when the means to an end make no sense. Like green pens on CD edges, demagnetizers, magic stones, voodoo dots, resonators aligning the earth to my stereo system. Ideas presented to me that I cannot make sense of get put on hold. Sometimes indefinitely. Sometimes forever. I remember the first time this became apparent to me. Harry Weisfeld’s, VPI Brick. See full article at,https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/fear-of-tweaks/ |
jetter ^^^^ The two sides will never meet. Where some consider it a special person with a sense of adventure and curiosity to experiment with some of the more, "bizarre" tweaks, others just consider this the "freak side show" of audio. But above all, its your money and you spend it however you like. >>>>Actually there is only one side. I humor the tweakaphobes by letting them think there are two sides. Don’t tell anyone. 🤫 |
OK, I’m going to help you guys out. Here is a short list of iconic outrageous tweaks. 1 Tiny little bowl acoustic resonators, 7/8” diameter, silver, gold and platinum versions. Don’t ask how much they are. Ultra Tweeters from Golden Sound, electromagnetic output 3 GHz, nothing below that. Schumann frequency generator from Acoustic Revive circa $800, 7.8 Hz electromagnetic wave improves audio system as well as acoustic instruments like piano. Walker Talisman demagnetizer for CDs, interconnects and LPs. I got mine ten years ago as industry insider, I think they’re $300 now, maybe more. Cream Electret and Silver Rainbow Foil from PWB Electronics, everybody’s favorite witch doctor. I mention these two things because you can get free samples, just mention my name. These two products made the Stereophile Recommended Components List about 4 years ago. Guaranteed to blow your mind. 🤯 Last but not least, The Photos in the Freezer Tweak. Instructions upon request. Blow your mind. 🤯 1 My Teleportation Tweak didn’t make this list because it’s an Amateur list. |
kqvkq I do have to offer my compliments to the original poster for a fun idea, it was inevitable that the thread would descend into argument. Why? Well, speaking as someone who has been involved in the hobby for over 40 years, I’ve watched the lunatic fringe rise from Auntie Enid and Peter Beltto, to well what it has become. Why would the eye bulging types invade the thread to defend that tweaks and gizmos and Audio Jewelry are the bee’s knees? What do they need to defend? Can’t skeptics ridicule the craziness that inhabits audio in peace? >>>>I hate to judge too quickly but it appears you’ve eye-dentified the wrong group as eye bulging types. 👀 Footnote: I almost stopped reading the post when I saw the poster “has been involved in the hobby for over 40 years.” It’s kind of a tip off of what’s to follow. 😬 |
PT Barnum quotes: “No one ever made a difference by being like everyone else.” “Unless a man enters upon the vocation intended for him by nature, and best suited to his peculiar genius, he cannot succeed.” “The best kind of charity is to help those who are willing to help themselves.” “I don’t care what the newspapers say about me as long as they spell my name right.” “Advertising is to a genuine article what manure is to land, - it largely increases the product.” “Behind every crowd is a silver lining.” 🤗 |
That reminds me. I’ve got a million (count em!) candle power adjustable strobe light I use to improve CDs. Haven’t used it in years. It’s a makeshift “photon cannon” in the style of Nespa Pro strobe light CD device. Just set the thing for 100 flashes per minute and expose the CD to the strobe light for 60 seconds. It will treat about 8 CDs simultaneously. Cannot beat with stick! |
I’m a little surprised none of the tweakaphobes has mentioned the Quantum Clip. The Re-animator. Hey, If this is going to be a remedial class for advanced tweaks so be it! And the Clever Little Clock chopped liver, I suppose? http://pwbelectronics.co.uk/product/quantum/quantum.html |
It doesn’t make sense that stranded wires are not all in the same direction if the manufacturing process is automated - even without going to the trouble of controlling directionality. Do they dump all the strands in a barrel and pay some guy to grab them one by one? Give me a break! If it doesn’t make sense it’s not true. It certainly doesn’t hurt to try reversing interconnects, no matter whether they’re stranded, shielded, unshielded, whatever. Besides, there are other reasons why there’s no guarantee that reversing cables will be audible. We all know what those reasons are, don’t we? 😬 The big boys control the whole process from A to Z, so that interconnects, speaker cables, power cords, HDMI cables will be in the correct direction as marked. It’s not rocket science. Of course, anyone can ignore directionality, it’s no skin off my nose. It’s just one of those small and sometimes irritating things that separates the high end from everybody else. One wonders, how long it will be before people get smart and control directionality for transformers, internal wiring of components and speakers, capacitors, resistors, ribbon connectors, etc.? |
azbrd geoffkait, I’m only quoting the advice you give everyone on this site, to reverse the direction of their wires because they will hear a difference. You never considered that many of use balanced cables and there is no way to do that after the cable is made. In addition, asking the cable manufacture to construct a balanced cable with the “proper” directionality only gets crickets or laughter because they can’t measure OR hear any difference either direction the cable goes. >>>>I don’t recommend anyone reverse balanced cables. Never did. You’re putting words in my mouth. As you “astutely” observe that would conflict with the direction balanced cables should be connected. As I just got through saying you cannot reverse power cords either, obviously. Duh! So somehow the AC current between an AMP to a speaker behaves differently than the AC current for power to the amp? BTW, if the signal does not go the opposite direction the AC circuit wont won’t work. >>>>I certainly did not say that. Do you have reading difficulties? Of course the current goes in both directions. How observant of you. There may be many people who don’t understand how a CD player or a combustion engine works, for sure there are plenty of people on this forum who give flaky Pseudoscience advice. >>>>You’re much better at high school name calling than logic. One assumes you have a high school diploma. Maybe not, how should I know? In any case, you should probably stick to comedy. |
azbrd Geofkait, how would one reverse the direction of a balanced cable? the ends are different, should i send them back to the company who made them and have the wire direction reversed? Assuming they would not laugh at me how would they prove that they did it without little arrows on the wire?? >>>>The general idea is to control wire and cable directionality during manufacturing. That way you can have your cake 🍰 and eat it too. The cable will then be balanced AND in the correct direction. Otherwise, it’s a compromise. Obviously, you can’t reverse balanced cables or power cords to check on directionality. Duh! 🙄 I recently had to disconnect the main power at my house from the street transformer, i asked the guy from the power company about reversing the wires to get the directionality right and he laughed at me, asked what the hell i was talking about. I mentioned your name Geoff, said you were an expert about wire directionality! Seriously though, he asked how you measured the difference. He also mentioned the fact that AC current goes back and forth at 60HZ so half the time it would be WRONG if wire were directional. >>>>You measure the difference by measuring the drop in voltage one way, then the other. It’s the direction for which the resistance is less that sounds better. Follow? The AC signal does go back and forth, the power dude was absolutely right about that. But we only care about the signal when it’s traveling toward the speakers. Who cares about the signal going in the opposite direction? 🔛 Hel-loo! That’s why Audioquest controls directionality for their high end power cords. Because in all AC circuits wire is directional. It seems the guys who work on AC current every single day have not been trained on wire directionality OR, maybe it just does not exist! >>>>>So what? People play CDs every day but don’t know that the CD laser is a Quantum device or how quantum physics works. People drive cars every day without knowing how a combustion engine works. 😳 Wire directionality is strictly an audiophile phenomenon. Obviously, electricity “works” in either direction. |