What's wrong with Thiel?

I'll respond since I have made some remarks about Thiel speakers here on Audiogon that could be misconstrued or misinterpreted as being negative or somehow disparaging.

There is absolutely nothing "wrong" with Thiel speakers. They sound very good if used within the proper parameters. As Bigtee states they are phase and time coherent and that is a wonderful thing, but they are designed to be listened to from a particular distrance and they will sound considerably better at that distance because that is the distance at which the sound will arrive "in phase" at your ears. As a general rule Thiel speakers are designed to be phase coherent for a larger listening room, i.e. a longer distance from the speakers, than many customers assume. I am sure Jim Thiel would be more than happy to walk you through the setup of your speakers. Jim is a very intelligent engineer and has contributed a lot to our industry, and his company is great to work with both from a consumer's and a dealer's perspective (I am not a Thiel dealer but know Thiel dealers who say Jim is a class act through and through)

The other important consideration is amplification - and this is where my remarks have been directed recently in these forums. There is nothing "wrong" with Thiel speakers so long as you run them on a sufficiently capable amplifier. Thiel's are very difficult to drive because their impedance is generally quite low. This means that tubes are pretty much out of the question. They simply will not be able to keep up with the current demands, and the sound will suffer considerably as a result.. But you cannot arbitrarily select a solid state amplifier for Thiel's either. The amp must have high current output and must be comfortable with extremely low impedance levels (2 ohms, ideally lower) Amplifiers that make use of current limiting circuitry or that do not play nice with loads under 4 ohms are poor choices. Again, I am sure Jim Thiel would be more than happy to advise you in this matter. I have never heard of a customer calling Thiel and receiving misleading information in the interest of closing the sale. He will tell you the truth and tell you whether or not your room is big enough or your amp is capable of driving his speakers.

If you set them up properly and use the right amp, Thiel's can be magical. But they are tricker to incorporate into one's system than some other speakers which have less onerous demands on the amplifier and don not require such a large listening room.

Sugarbrie - I would definitely agree with you that matching amplifiers and speakers is important in the case of every speaker, not just Thiel's. However I would like to rephrase your next statement. I do not believe it is fair to say that a speaker which will run on a wide variety of amps cannot sound as good as a speaker which is more limited insofar as which amps will drive it properly. There are many wonderful speakers which have a relatively benign load and sound as good as Thiel's (different - but just as good) But I think perhaps what you were getting at is that a speaker which is unable to reveal the differences between two amplifiers is clearly inferior to one which is able to do so.

Incidentally as somebody pointed out - the newest Thiel speakers are starting to sound a little warmer and will not sound as bright even on brighter amplifiers. Also the impedance characteristics of these new speakers is considerably more benign than any previous Thiel. I think Jim Thiel may be making an effort to develop a speaker which is a little less picky about the amps which drive it - we may see a tube friendly Thiel yet.