What's wrong with classical music on vinyl?

Vinyl may have some good characteristics, but to be completely truthful, low background noise, dynamic range, and separation (all things that can be precisely measured)are not among them. Of these deficiencies, surface noise, including clicks and rumble, are most obvious. However, some people have developed an ability to "listen through" the noise, and some have gone so far as to convince themselves, and try to convince others, that surface noise doesn't exist

Eldartford, I have been sitting quietly reading this thread, wondering when you would make your properly timed jab.

You are so wrong it frustrates me. You have no experience with a quality LP playback system and no right to make such comments.

The signal to noise of my analog playback systems, including my (very inexpensive) Lenco is often as quiet as my CD playback system (on very good LP's).

The Walker is absolutely as quiet as CD on 90% of my software, which includes thousands of LP's, some dating back to the 1950's.

I have had hundreds of visitors who can testify to that statement as truth. For those who have poor playback machinery due to mismatched components and not willing to make the physical (and financial effort), CD may be the best option. However it is wrong to make such statements based on your inexperience and hold it up as truth.

Well Eldartford, unless your afraid that you might have to admit that the music is better and WORKS pretty much noise in LP playback, you now have a challenge by way of access to a free plane ride to listen to another members system.

Or would you prefer to spew your usual technical stuff that has no foundation based on real experience?

You are so afraid that you might have to admit your wrong, likely from working in your "technical" field, you fight this format tooth and nail.

Too bad you can't let go and enjoy both, or at the very least, leave those of us alone that have worked with analog and achieved success.

Thanks Raul, we need support for music, not specs.

Styx,

Although I have to admit that I am very pleased with the reissues from Classic Records. Not so with the condition of the LPs.

Are you saying the LP's you have from Classic Records are not satisfactory? If so, I am surprised. The ones I have are extremely good, generally free of all defects and sound excellent.

Eldarftford,

I freely admit to now owning a playback system like Albert's, but if that were a prerequsite to have any opinion 99.9 percent of audiophiles, and all of the general public would be silenced.

There seems to be plenty of support for analog from Audiogoner's who have spent considerably less money than I did. Many of them agree that LP provides superior musical reproduction.

As for opinion, there is a need for truth as well.

Audiogon is a high end audio site and reference to "the ultimate" is a perfect position to take, even if only as a base line of what may be achieved. If you cannot or will not make the financial commitment, fine. Just don't say your way is the only way because you choose to make compromises.

And don't give me the "it's the music" story. If that were all that was important a Bose Wave Radio would suffice.

That's a ridiculous statement. No one at Audiogon works on getting their Bose Radio "right," unless that's your reference, then that would explain your aversion to analog.

Instead of looking at that cartridges channel separation specifications, that time would be better spent listening and determining if it works in your system.

Second best option is ask someone who's ears you trust, how does it sound? Specifications have almost no value in determining whether a product sounds good or not.

Example:
Amplifier A has distortion specifications of .002% THD and produces 1000 watts of power per channel.

Amplifier B has distortion specifications of <3% THD and produces 750 watts of power per channel.

Which sounds better?

Product are:
Amp A is Kenwood automotive amp.
Amp B is VTL 750 mono blocks.

This could go on for pages, there are countless products that have great specifications and sound bad and products that have lesser specifications that sound excellent.

I don't know if it's flaws in the measuring process, people measuring are inept, the wrong things are being measured or the data is falsified. Regardless, specifications are not something on which I would base my decision to buy.

The problem comes from blanket statements that infer that ALL vinyl playback is noisy, contains pops that "must be listened through" and that the bass is summed and therefore "inferior" somehow.

All that talk about defects would lead a newcomer to the conclusion that ALL LP playback is a disaster. There are many fine turntables on the market and many great cartridges that mate up well with them. I agree that CD has convenience on its side (not to mention being able to play in the car) and is always free of noise. Analog, particularly LP, requires more work, but can be just as free of noise and distraction.

When I say free of noise, I'm not talking about some machine specification, rather to real life experience of placing a CLEAN LP on a good quality turntable and listening to music at levels that are safe for our hearing (approximately 88 to 90 DB, at 14 feet in my room).

In my system and everyone in my music group who I have listened with, that is sufficient "room filling music" and usually ZERO noise or pops. The other night we were actually discussing this topic and we consciencely listened for flaws, just to see if we were fooling ourselves.

In four plus hours of listening to everything from Rock to Bluegrass and Classical to Blues, we had one LP that had pops about 15 seconds into the first track. Otherwise the evening could have been mistaken for all CD playback (except that I prefer the sound of analog).

Everyone in my group has good turntables, SME, VPI, Basis, Walker, Lenco, Linn and Versa Dynamics (to name a few). All these are capable of pulling off this "miraculous" stunt, provided the software is clean, the cartridge and arm are good quality and all the settings are correct.

Analog is a lot of work, but once done, there is a vast library of great software available, some at very reasonable prices. If this is too much trouble or you don't want to spend the money, or dislike having to "feed" two formats, that is fine. I have never said everyone should convert.

What I have claimed all along is that analog is more satisfying musically. Music is the only reason I own my system, otherwise it's just a bunch of junk taking up space in the living room.

Styx, Now I understand. I too would be upset with scratches and noise on a brand new premium LP. Luckily my Classic Records reissues did not have these problems.

I assume those 1S stampers were premium priced? If so, the disappointment would be even greater.