i asked this same question & machina dynamica's owner responded in the thread that if i wanted to know how this clock worked that there was plenty of information on his web site.
i went to his web site & all i read were stupid comments & claims of increased everything with zero explaination as to why or even a hint of a spec,how much can you modify a free time life travel alarm clock anyways ?
oh the one thing the web site did say is that you cant use a regular battery with this wonder clock after the stock battery runs out but instead you must use the super secret battery that only machina dynamica has,i gotta admit that its a clever idea though when you take a 99 cent alarm clock & charge $99 for it.
ive said it before & i'll say it again,machina dynamica is the ronco of hi fi.
mike. |
Although threads about "tweaks" inevitably contain more jokes than information, in my listening sessions there is a sense of clarity (or, perhaps detailing is better word) with enhanced micro and macro dynamic contrasts when called for by the recording.
Just as with any component change, there is some apparent improvement right away, as well as what seems to be further effect with listening to more and more familiar recordings, noticing more in recordings already memorized.
I agree with the implication that it is a leap of faith to try many ideas(a leap safer than skydiving), but isn't that part of the fun with our hobby? When trying out this tweak I am confident you could get a refund if such a purchase were to flunk your own listening tests. It's all about enjoying the music, to steal a famous phrase. |
My guess is that this is some kind of an alarm clock that introduces some generated noise/feedback into the AC and fools the owner into beleiving that his system sounds better.I am one of those myself because 3 years ago i discovered that my system sounds better with Playstation powered up in the chain. |
Well, so far I'm remaining on the "unconvinced" side of the fence. However, with respect to whether there's any evidence that this device has a discernible effect, absence of proof is not the same thing as proof of absence, either. |
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Read this post and moved on without comment but my wife is watching a show called the "Insider's List" which featured a segment on Gem Therapy and I thought "oh brother." Then I thought of this post and P.T. Barnum's famous line. |
What the hell is next? A spoon? A push up bra? How about a shower head? If the owner legitimately believes this works, I'll bet he's the same guy in high school who was stoned when some one gave him a Tylenol. Placebo affect and all... |
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Well, for the hell of it I got one to probably use as one of the door prizes for our NJAS holiday party next week. I've had a number of changes at once in my system recently involving my speaker crossovers, and my wife refuses to take the clock out of the house so I can see if there's a difference, so Sunday, Dec 4 the NJ Audio Society will use their golden ears to put this device to the test (hopefully before they've had too much wine). If you're interested, I'll report on how we did the test and what the findings were. I will remain mum for now as to what I think, as, like I said, there haver been too many recent changes to my system to tell whether the improvements I'm hearing are due to the changes to the crossovers or the clock. |
Rcprince:
I would be VERY interested in the outcome of such a listening test, and would suggest doing the test with the participants not knowing whether the clock is in the room or not. Hopefully, the test will proceed like "clockwork" and you can post the results thereof back to this thread in a "timely" fashion. |
Mdhoover--ouch, loved the puns! My initial plan is to have two people leave the house after everyone has listened with the clock as a benchmark, one with the clock and one without, and no one knows which of those two has the clock, then have them come back one at a time into the house, with a listening session with both out, only one back in and then only the other back in. I'll probably ask that people write down if they hear a difference or not, rather than have people say their thoughts aloud, to avoid any peer pressure issues as well. I'm sure that there are other variables, so this won't be a perfect test, but it will be interesting to see what transpires. |
Sounds like a fun test. If you wanted to blind people in the first part, you could make it unknown to the participants whether or not the initial listening session has the clock deployed. They would be told that the clock was either in possesion of one of the two people or hidden somewhere in the room. The advantage would be that all participants (except the would-be clock smugglers) would be blinded throughout the test. The disadvantage would be the absence of a "known" benchmark. Either way sounds fun, and you could even do it both ways if you really wanted to. |
Hey, if you're in the Northern NJ area on December 4, come on down and have a listen! |
Thanks for the invite! Geography precludes my participation, however. Maybe next "time". Anyway, I'll "watch" for the outcome of the listening test. |
Watch out with the puns, Mdhoover, you may be "ticking" some people off! |
its a timex so you know its a quality audio device! |
Please note the Clever Little Clock is in no way related to the Tice Clock of times gone by; in fact, the Clever Little Clock is battery powered and does not plug into the wall. Furthermore, the Clever Little Clock does not directly affect the audio signal in any way - not the house wiring, components, cables, speakers or acoustic waves in the room.
Yet the Clever Little Clock has a profound influence on the sound. In fact, one customer opined recently on AA that the Clock is the most significant audio item ever, including components or cables, etc.
A product whose time has come.
Geoff Kait, manufacturer Machina Dynamica's Clever Little Clock |
Each time when I took the CLC from my office to my home, carpool pasengers spontaneously remarked how wonderful the selections on the local classical music station sounded that day. Since we're talking about a sixteen year plain old GM Delco FM radio, the CLC is doing something to catch such unsolicited attention by usually inattentive passengers.
If the hypnotic digital display flashings of the clock were to actually tell the correct time then all the shortcomings in my old Chevy Caprice could be rectified at the same time.
No, I don't get better gas milage with the CLC, despite what the website claims. Just kidding. I really am a fan, having bought a second one of my own free will. |
Sorry for the duplicated postings. Did not intend to overwhelm the thread by brute force. |
thats great geoff but how's about some kind of explaination as to how it works,as with the last thread about this clock you say alot without saying anything at all , contrary to your post in the last thread there is not lots of information on your web site regarding the clever little clock only testamony from happy customers, several times now you have come to the threads to defend this product & never offer anything except a sales pitch .
im not trying to bust your balls over this product it may or may not work great & i have not tried it but i am a heavy spender in this hobby & the questions i pose are legit.
i hope agon lets my post go thru as you are an active participant in this thread & you have gave your product another plug in the forums without offering any explaination as to how it works.
mike. |
Bigjoe, hello - I appreciate your curiosity regarding Mr. Clock. While I hate being mysterious or a tease as much as the next guy, I am deferring any explanation of the clock until sometime in the future. I have learned with Mr. Chip that explanations can sometimes bog things down, so to speak, rather than help anyone. For time being, I prefer to rely on my customers' descriptions of their experiences w/ Mr. Clock.
GK |
i have never been to any high end shops or peeps home and seen ,a device like this.I would think if you spend money,on good stuff,pre, amps speakers, interconnects,ect.you wouldnt need a 100.00 clock in the room. but if you will buy a jar of rocks ,you will buy anything..i wonder if the clock will improve tara labs,,,omega speaker wires for 10,000.00, or wilson watt,speaker system.has any one done research to see what the timex clock would cost in walmart and what model number it is... |
Music is an emotional thing. We listen to it because it inspires, sooths, excites and allows us to wonder. The only way this little clock can do what it's maker says is that after spending $99 on a $5 walmart clock I would guess that the buyers emotions are inspired, soothed and left wondering.
But perhaps I am wrong and this is the single item that defy's all laws of physics and electricity.
Now a better question. Where can one buy sand for thier component rack that is harmonically tuned to thier systems individual resonances. |
This clock is a crock. The clock is merely a cheap knockoff of nathanm's Sonic Rock. He's selling these at Audiocircle for only 50 bucks. They work because they do work! Whatever you believe to improve does! He doesn't make any wild claims nor does he try to babble with b.s. This is a very real technology based on faith.
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=22961 |
We had our experiment with the NJAS yesterday--I'm compiling and will be writing up the results for our newsletter, including the methodology, when I get some time today or later this week and can put them here as well, if anyone would have an interest. Doubt if it'll be conclusive, as we didn't have enough time to do a thorough test and with as large a group as we had and the amount of times we repeated the same music, there's always something that is likely to change a person's perception of the sound, but it was done on a blind basis to the group so I'm interested myself in seeing what the results were. |
"explanations can sometimes bog things down, so to speak, rather than help anyone"
Yup, reality sure can be a bummer. |
What's the deal with the "Brilliant Pebbles"? |
Rcprince,
Have you compiled the results of your listening test? If so, what were the results? |
Here's the report of the test I did for our newsletter. It's fairly long, and likely does not prove anything.
Results of the Clever Little Clock Test
At the December 4 meeting of the New Jersey Audio Society held in my home, we held a fairly unscientific listening test to see if we could hear the effects of a tweak called the Clever Little Clock marketed by Machina Dynamica. The clock is an ordinary looking Timex digital travel alarm. For the test, the clock, together with its accompanying special spare set of batteries, was placed in a paper bag before the meeting and placed in the back of the listening room (a 20 x 18 foot room with a 10-foot ceiling). In addition, a couple of boxes of pens were placed in another different type of (but equally opaque) bag and placed next to the bag with the clock. No one even really noticed or asked about the bags prior to the test, and no one looked inside or lifted the bags prior to the test.
The test was conducted using one SACD played through my system, which is a pretty revealing system consisting in relevant part of a Sony SCD-777ES with both Richard Kern Superclock II, transport and resistor mods and a Jerry Ozment-designed and installed Audio Logic tube/transformer coupled output stage, running to a Jadis JP-200 preamp (special model using EF 86 tubes instead of 12AX7s), running to a solid state active crossover which feeds a pair of Sonogy Black Knight Mk III amps (handling from 220 Hz down) and a pair of Lamm ML-1.1 tubed amps above 220 Hz, which power a Sforzando JL-1 speaker system which has been significantly changed from its stock form (not many of these around, to understate itthis is a full range system, going flat in room to below 20 Hz, with two satellites having front and rear-firing tweeters and a midrange on a 30 degree or so angle giving both direct sound and aiming up to the ceiling). Those of you old enough to remember the ITC-1 designed by Richard Davidson will know this speaker, its Father Richards current statement design. An advantage of the design is that it behaves to large extent like an omnidirectional speaker, so off-axis listeners are not disadvantaged in listening. All cabling used in the test was Kubala-Sosna Emotion, their top of the line. The amplification was well-warmed up, having been on and constantly played for over three hours. This system has been highly resolving of differences between isolation devices, cabling and components in the past, so I believe that it would be able to show any difference the clock might make.
22 members of the club participated in the test; I did not. I had everyone sit in the same place for the entire listening session, so no one left the room or changed seats. Things were a little crowded, and everyone wanted to get on to our door prize drawings, so we decided to listen to only one piece of music. As the distributor of the clock had suggested something dynamic and well-recorded, and had mentioned the Mercury Suppe/Auber Overtures disc as a good one for the test, we listened to the first minute or so of track 5 of this disc, the Morning, Noon and Night in Vienna Overture, which features a good dose of full orchestra with strong percussion, loud brass, some pauses where the hall ambience is evident, and a nice cello solo over pizzicato strings. We listened to the SACD layer of the disc.
The participants were instructed not to speak or make any gestures or exclamations during the test to give away their impressions. Each participant was given a pad and a pen and was asked to write down if they were sitting on axis, off-axis left or off-axis right. The group listened first to the disc as a control before we started switching things around; impressions were written only and made anonymously. The participants were advised that the clock was in the system for the control; after that, the bags would be removed in a random order from the house and taken by one of our members to the street about 50-60 feet away. I did not say if the clock was in one of the bags or not. After each change was made the participants had to write down whether they heard a change in the sound of the playbackif they wished they could also say if it was for the better or worse, but that was not necessary.
The results of the test were as follows:
1. Bag without clock removed (i.e., clock not removed from house, no change)--6 heard a change, 16 did not
2. Bag with clock removed (both bags now out of house, change)--5 heard a change, 17 did not
3. Bag without clock brought back in (clock still out of house, no change)--3 heard a change, 19 did not
4. Bag with clock brought back in (both bags now in house, change)--5 heard a change, 17 did not
As you can see, some people heard a change when none was made, some heard a change when there was a change made, and many did not hear any changes. One person out of the 22 correctly identified each change or lack of change; two people identified changes when none occurred and no change when the changes did occur (i.e., they were wrong every time). 13 of the 22 members heard no change in any of the four scenarios. The position one sat in, whether on or off axis, did not seem to make any difference in the perceptions. The one person who correctly identified the changes advised me after the test that he preferred the system slightly without the clock, feeling that the highs were smoother and cleaner with the clock out of the system (that was how he determined if a change was made); some others who wrote their opinions when they correctly heard or didnt hear a change had a similar impression of the change, but some of those people preferred the sound with the clock in over the sound with it out.
Feel free to draw any conclusions you wish (other than, perhaps, that by a two to one ratio people found that two boxes of pens had more of an effect on the sound of the system than the clock!). Obviously, there were plenty of flaws in the test. I do think that many of the people were not taking the test as seriously as they might have in an individual testing environment, and as one person noted, you could probably hear a change every time I played the disc due to other factors, as much as we tried to eliminate the variables. Had I played a different piece of music, or perhaps used a CD source, maybe changes would have been more noticeable. But that will be for another day. |
The scientific journals may not beat a path to your door, Rcprince, but I'd say this was a reasonable stab at trying to learn something. By my count, your subjects got 45 correct (16+5+19+5) and 43 incorrect (6+17+3+17). That's pretty much 50-50, which means it looks like your subjects were just guessing and couldn't really hear any difference.
The fact that one guy scored perfectly means nothing by itself; with 22 subjects, somebody's bound to go 4 for 4 on luck alone. Had you more time, and wanted to be more scientific, you could have repeated the test with that individual, and made it double-blind. My money says he'd have "regressed to the mean," as they say.
Important caveat: One test cannot prove that this clock makes no difference. But quibbling over the weaknesses of this test doesn't prove anything, either. If anyone cares to defend this silly clock, they need to do a better test.
Prediction: The Machina Dynamica Web site will soon brag that, in a careful study, members of the New Jersey Audio Society correctly identified whether the clock was in the room or not more than half the time.
Second prediction: Some people will believe this. |
this debate remind's me of a line in a old mothers of invention song "gregory peckory" where the "trend mongers" rack their agile mind's to come up with a thrilling new trend to sell to the bored & miserable people, it's then that gregory peckory(a little pig kinda animal) single handedly invent's the calander.
from the song "a peckory is a pig".
mike. |
Hey, I just report the news..... |
During a thunderstorm we had awhile back,i was sitting on my porch watching the rain,and all of a sudden a bolt of lightning hit this huge rock ,which then shattered into many smaller pieces.I picked out a piece about the size of a 50 cent piece and put it on top of my desk (same room as stereo)over the next few days i noticed that my system sounded much clearer,like a veil had been lifted!!So,i took the rock and moved it outside,and my system did not sound as good!WOW!!!!!!!!!I have many pieces of this rock,and as a favor i ,can send one to you for a donation to my upgrade fund.Thank you!Ray |
i dunno if it has been posted here, so here goes:
http://www.randi.org/jr/200512/12095intelligent.html
one of those "clever" little devices dissected |
Ray, you sure that lightning bolt didn't also hit you, at least peripherally? :~) |
i heard that they really work good, but only if they are cryogenically treated. |
I hope i didnt tick anyone off with my fictional story ,,,it was meant in the spirit of humor!Audiogon hasnt billed me for a classified ad , yet,lol,,,Rcprince,i do live in the lightning capital of the world!Peace,Ray |
So Geoff, you state: "the Clever Little Clock does not directly affect the audio signal in any way - not the house wiring, components, cables, speakers or acoustic waves in the room." And, according to your website: 1) you can substitute different quartz modules in your clock 2) only "special" batteries will work 3) if you adjust the time the audio enhancement will cease 4) you must remove the clock from your house for A/B'ing 5) you can't even place the clock in your car for A/B'ing You also state :...the Clever Little Clock has a profound influence on the sound. In fact, one customer opined recently on AA that the Clock is the most significant audio item ever, including components or cables, etc.....I am deferring any explanation of the clock until sometime in the future..... explanations can sometimes bog things down, so to speak, rather than help anyone. For time being, I prefer to rely on my customers' descriptions of their experiences. Can you say "placebo effect"? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! |
I think the designer has named this product after himself but misspelled it by one letter. |
i'm totally dumbstruck that this guy actually sells this cr*p. |
>>i'm totally dumbstruck that this guy actually sells this cr*p<<
Yeah but what about the people that buy it? Those folks are really scary. |
Pitdog: Yes, very amusing as Randi is only about 9 months late on that one; the photo of the innards of the chip were exposed on my web site a long time ago.
Fatparrot: I agree with your paraphrasing of what I state on my web site with exception of (1) replacing the quartz module.
Dennis the Menace: "I'm totally dumbstruck" - I agree :-) |
just look at it!and the pebble thing,,,come on,Geof,im not trying to be mean,,,but do you blame folks for not taking these products serious? |
"the pebble thing".. LOL! exactly! |
Never in a million years would I buy into the idiotic idea that these clocks could have any effect on an audio system's sound. That being said, when I look through the classified ads here and find used power cables listed at $2K plus and realize the owner must've originally bought them believing they could noticeably improve his system, it's only a matter of time before some shyster tries to sell his "Clever Little Clocks" to audiophiles. |
Although subtle, it appears as though skepticism is beginning to emerge as a predominant theme among posters to this thread..... |
Mdhoover: You started off the post that initiated this thread, "Just my uninformed and untested opinion and maybe I am wrong..."
That characterization of your opinion has emerged as a predominant theme among posters here. Not sure I'd call it "skepticism," though. :-) |
"if evolution is true, why are there still monkeys?" from Pitdog's link. |
Geoff, reading your disagreement to my statement about "replacing the quartz module" let me clarify my statement with a direct quote from your website: Machina Dynamica reserves the right to use more than one brand/model to produce Clever Little Clocks, so don't be alarmed if the Clock you receive is not the exact one in the photo. All versions of the Clever Little Clock are equivalent. I stand by my previous post. From the issues I raised there, I don't think that anyone with the slightest degree of intelligence could possibly believe that this product could produce ANY audio enhancement. |
Fatparrot - Ah, now i see what you meant. I use different brands/models to produce the CLC -- e.g., Timex Intrusion and Sharp LCD travel alarm.
Of course your skepticism is not unique; CLC customer comments at:
www.machinadynamica.com/machina41.htm
As unbelievable to you that the clock could possibly have any effect on the sound, there are scores who have heard it for themselves. The effects are real and they are quite pronounced.
Cheers, GK
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