What preamp between Burmester and Krell?

I am considering preamp upgrade. It will be obviouslu an used device. Choosing between Krel KBL line stage (former Stereophile Class D in the 90's), Burmester 846 (line stage) and Burmester 785. I am not very familiar with the German preamps, so I want your advice. The rest of the set up is Von Schweikert VR 6 speakers, Esoteric DV 60,s CD player, Audio Note p Zero monos power amplifiers and a phono as analog front.
Please, help!
N. Milkov
Why not get an Audio Note pre?
What are you amp and speakers?
Sorry for the mistake. The Krell was a component of Class A, of course.
He lists his speakers and amps in his post. Did you read ir.
Neither, both are horrible sounding pre amplifiers! Look for a used Lamm L1 or L2 preamp instead
My experience is similar to Dkarmeli's regarding the Burmester sound. I'd certainly prefer the Lamm or the Audio Note to match your amplifier.
I also agree, for your setup I think a tubed preamp, such as an Audio Note or a Lamm LL2, would be a better choice. The Krell and Burmester would, IMHO, sound a little threadbare in your system.
Impressive unanimity. Tnx a lot. Best nikmilkov
Hi Nik,
If possible it's always better to listen to these components yourself and judge (often easier said than done I realize). If your hearing and taste are similar to mine for example, you'll much prefer the AN or the Lamm sound quality and music reproduction.
Good Luck,
If he has a Burmester amp, why not a Burmester pre? I don't get why it wouldn't be considered. I have heard all Burmester setups(electronics, not speakers) and they sounded pretty incredible to my ears.
Kclone, its a question of taste and experience, just don't find burmester equipment musical or worth the price. This is from direct hands on personal ownership. But no one's telling you that you shouldn't enjoy yours.
Hi Kclone,
This is nothing more than personal opinions based on listening, nothing else. If you like the Burmester components that's fine and I say go for it. We just have different taste rather than a case of right or wrong. Nik's amplifier is an Audio Note by the way.
Kclone, as Charles points out he doesn't have a Burmester amp. Although he is considering replacing the 8 watt Audio Notes with Burmester monoblocks. See this thread.

-- Al
Al, thanks for the thread link.
Nik if you prefer the Burmester amplifier sound then it's pretty likely you'll favor their preamp as well.
okay, thanks for clearing that up guys. I like Burmester, but I don't think they are worth the price, thats for sure.
I would look into the simaudio evolution moon 740p line stage, or if the budget allows, the 850p line stage, LOL!, then look into the Atmasphere line stages, the Steve MCcormick speciality brand of the Vre-1c pre-amp, you will do your self a favor at doing so, I understand these are some of the top performers these days.
Just to make it clear. I don't intend to replace the Audio Note poweramps with Burmester. The idea is eventualy to use them both (all the 4 monos) in a biamping configuration. Audio Note for M?H and Burmester for more attack in the lows. That is why I am wondering what preamp will fit the best in such a configuration.
I don't intend to replace the Audio Note poweramps with Burmester. The idea is eventualy to use them both (all the 4 monos) in a biamping configuration.
Nik, your post dated 1-24-14 in the other thread I linked to above appeared to indicate otherwise.

As far as I can tell all of the currently produced Burmester amps have VASTLY greater power capability (and undoubtedly very different gains) than the Audio Note amps, especially when used as monoblocks. See my post in the other thread for the issues that would be presented by using both of those amps in a biamp configuration. Even if you somehow gain match the amps, most of the power capability of the Burmester amps would be unuseable and wasted. In effect you would be converting the high powered Burmester monoblocks into low powered amps.

With all due respect, as I see it biamping an 8 watt tube amp with a very high powered solid state amp (in conjunction with a pair of integrated speakers that are designed to work in a reasonable manner when driven by a single amplifier, as opposed to an assembly of separate speaker components for each of the frequency ranges) makes no sense. And that is all aside from and in addition to the possibility of compromised sonics resulting from driving the speakers with different sounding amps.

-- Al
I sincerely wish you a successful outcome but I'd pay much attention to Al's always astute advice and contributions. Give yor plan some serious thought.
I would second the advice given by Al, both in this thread and the other. Passive bi-amping is not easy to do well, and why spend all that money to use a fraction of the power in the Burmester. You might consider using the money aimed at the Burmesters to try a different amplifier with more power to run your speakers full-range (or maybe the Burmesters by themselves). If you're really convinced to try biamping, you should try to find a preamp with two pairs of outputs (I don't know if the Krell or Burmester units have that capability, but many preamps, including the Lamm LL2, do).
Being aware of the difference in the output voltage of the amps I was told by knowledgable guys that the gain difference may be compensated and adjusted in a way that for all the amps would be possible to be ran by a single preamp without deteriorating the signal. But, yes each seting like this will prevent the possibility of the more powerful amp to show its full power.
My point on the preamp was more a practical one--if you have one set of outputs from the preamp, you will need some type of a signal splitter between each channel of the preamp and the two amplifiers being fed by it. While such devices do exist, they can be seen by some as degrading the sound. My experience has been hearing a slight improvement when I used a second output from my preamp vs. using Monster dual-headed RCA adapters out of a single output (we converted an unused input in my Shindo preamp to create a second output).
Go straight with Burmester. A good friend that He've had the
happy opportunity to demo/own most of all top best
components of any hi-end brands (kondo, audio tekne',
shindo, krell, mbl, accuphase, wilson, acapella, taoc,
magneplanar) and now he owns a Burmester Reference System.
For him (and a lot people and very experts/music lovers that
are very close to the live music) consider that Burmester
System at the TOP of audio research towards the music, the
true essence of music with no coloration.

NEver seen or heard Burmester. Always like Krell pre-amps when I hear them. Downside is bulk and I worry about Krell reliability over the long term in general enough to have steered clear to date, though often tempted.
I have yet to hear anything by Burmester, but I look forward in doing so. From what I've heard and read, it is head and shoulders above Krell, Levinson, etc.
I personally would have to listen to a burmester to believe it's better than all Krells, remember, all krell models sound alot different from one to the other, some may prefer the Evolution E series, I prefer the FPB CX series model line, it's all preferance.

Listen the Masterpiece Combo: Burmester 911 Mk3 & Burmester 808 Mk5. But I could tell you frankly that after will be very hard to listen other sounds!!