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What makes you build a system around an amplifier?

Serious question. I almost always care about the room and speakers first, then build around that. However, this is not the only way to do things.

If you have ever insisted on keeping your amplifier, but were willing to change everything else around it, please let us know why. What made an amp so outstanding in your mind that it was worth making it your center piece. Imaging? slam?

Be specific about the amp and speakers or other gear that you shuffled through.

Thanks!

E
erik_squires
larryi
3,716 posts
 

There is some logic to first starting with finding the speaker that you really like, and then finding an amp that works well with that speaker.  The demands of certain types of speakers might rule out certain amps (e.g., low efficiency speakers ruling out SETs; speakers that dip very low in impedance might rule out high output impedance amps). 

However, things are not necessarily that simple.  Some of the most obviously different and great sounding gear that I've heard were amps.  Some amps are so much better than run of the mill types that it makes it worthwhile finding speakers that work with  such amps rather than the other way around.  One such amp I heard is a custom-built OTL, that is quite astonishing sounding with many speakers, but, I thought not quite so great sounding with a very low efficiency, low-impedance speaker.  The other great amps I've heard include a pushpull 252 amp and a pushpull 300b amp; both of which sort of demand high-efficiency speakers. 

The amps I own, are not slouches either: an Audio Note Kageki (parallel single-ended) and a Western Electric 133 (pushpull 349).  Again, both require high-efficiency speakers.  Both amps are of high enough quality to justify finding speakers that will play nice with them. 

erik_squires OP
15,643 posts
 
Hi everyone,

There will be no brow beating, but the point of this thread was to focus in on amps which are so unique and special that listeners want to keep them above everything else.

I worry that if we let the thread spread out into whether that is the right approach or not, we won’t get to hear about these exceptional experiences and the mainstream approaches will crowd out this set of ideas, which are definitely "off the beaten track." That is the point. :)

For me for instance, I am reading a lot of amplifier brands I do not normally read about. If we get stuck with mainstream products, we may never get the chance to hear these truly rare and boutique amps.

Best,

E
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,411 posts
 
There are a fair number of people who find the Atma-Sphere OTL's so much better than transformer-coupled amps (more transparent, better bass, more extended high end, "faster") that they are willing to find a speaker that will work well with them, in spite of the limitations OTL's impose. Maggie owners use the Anti Cable Autoformer to raise the impedance of their 4 ohm load to help match them with A-S amps . I complete understand and agree with that approach, at least in the case of Atma-Sphere.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,574 posts
 
@bdp24 thanks!

Generally speaking, the amp/speaker interface is a very important part of the game. OTLs in general like to see higher impedances (although the speaker impedance curve doesn’t have to be flat), and the same is often true of SETs.

First Watt solid state amps are also best used with speakers of more than 4 ohms. They don’t make a lot of power either, so you do best with them if you have an easier speaker to drive- 95 db or more.

I don’t agree that all ’well-designed’ amplifiers sound the same- far from it. A lot depends on the goal of the designer! For example, our amps are very wide bandwidth and low distortion, but they don’t use feedback, and that is with intention. This was to avoid the distortion caused by the feedback system itself, and the result of that was that we have to be quite selective about what speakers to use with the amps. But the upside is as far as we can tell, this allows us to get a lot closer to the music itself.

I’m pretty sure that if you talk to an SET designer, you will find that they say something quite similar, and if you read Nelson Pass’s articles about the First Watt amps, you will see the same thing espoused. I’m not saying that there is only one way and its our way, what I **am** saying is that making an amp that is a perfect voltage source is not the only way and that there are advantages to avoiding that approach.

This means that you can’t just buy a speaker and expect that any amp will work with it. In fact, the idea of the amp being a voltage source for flat bandwidth (which I call the Voltage Paradigm) really only works with box speakers where the impedance curve is also a map of the speaker’s efficiency. There are a number of speaker technologies that don’t fit that model and as a result, don’t work with that kind of amplification.

You can read more about this topic at this link:
http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/Paradigms_in_Amplifier_Design.php


trelja
3,223 posts
 
@willemj , I agree with you in regard to the Quad ESL57.

Though some never find one, I think acquiring a transcendental product anchors one's system.  I've always thought the loudspeaker the most likely candidate.  But in the past generation, I find the number of unique and more interesting loudspeakers have declined to the degree that much more of a chance exists today for a power amplifier to serve that role.

I've owned quite a lot of amplifiers.  The Jadis DA60 comes closest to an amplifier I would build a system around.  Fortunately, it also mates beautifully with a wider range of loudspeakers than most.  Charles has long touted his 300B based amplifier becoming that for him, and found his happiness there, and many others have shared their stories.

But in the end, for me, it's the Quad ESL57 that so far outclasses any other component I've encountered, loudspeaker or amp, that it will serve as the foundation of my system for as long as I can see
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