What is this........midrange bloom??

Jafox....no disagreement here...

"The danger is that once we hear this new level of performance it is mighty tough to return to what our reference had been before."

I just purchased a Elrod sig pc so my comparison journey begins....

cheers

Jafox

"The danger is that once we hear this new level of performance it is mighty tough to return to what our reference had been before."

That is music to a dealers ear.....probably manufactures ears as well. It is really hard to look back. I do think that single ended does have the bloom. In my mind that is an upside to the very simple circuitry as much as to the tubes.

Wavetrader - My reported observations were relative. There are no absolutes here. When we upgrade a link in the chain, we are often overwhelmed with the new degree of refinement over what we had before. And until that event, we were fairly certain our system had outstanding tonal coherency, dynamic contrasts, portrayal of space, incredible resolution, etc. And then along comes one change, whether a cable, a preamp, a small-signal tube, etc., and then we are aware of what we had been missing from our great system of before.

When I first was exposed to NBS, first the Master and then a full system of Statement, I was a happy camper. I was not aware of its shortcomings because of what it did like no other cables that I had heard before. But years later, through encouragement by audio buddies, I tried some other cables and was quite floored by the flaws in the NBS. A direct comparison of the ICs and PCs made we well aware of what my system was truly capable of.

As for dynamic contrasts, this along with bloom have been the two things I have chased for 20+ years. The ARC SP-10 was the preamp that reigned supreme in both of these categories when it came out. And I have sought refinements here ever since.

Concerning tube amps that excel with dynamic contrasts, I have not heard the VACs, but after hearing the CAT vs Atmasphere amps 4 years ago, the performance of the CAT here was so far beyond that of the Atmasphere (which is a phenomenal product on its own), I seriously doubt that the CAT has any peers in this regard. This greatly influenced me to purchase the CAT.

We can be content with what we have but part of the experience is what we learn when we try something else or when a friend brings over a cable or a tube and drops it into our system. The danger is that once we hear this new level of performance it is mighty tough to return to what our reference had been before.

Oh about the NBS lack of dynamics??? Try the Nielsen recording "Alladin"....first time I played I didn't know whether I should just sit or run for my life.....My Vacs are known for their excellent dynamics and high end....but my SS Accuphase C200 preamp really creates a beautiful synergy.....I have yet to hear a tube pre that makes me want to change....

Hi sounds real.....beleive me the speakers are just fine...Martha Argerich is playing Ondine right now (at my place)....that bloom....I talked about has been watered down a little. I actually like it that way.....I guess my Bro is a bloom freak though.

Jafox....In my system the high freq are wonderful....I have'nt any complaints about the NBS upper grade cables...beautifuly balanced...but that's me....mileage may vary. One thing about NBS they have a big following in Asia...especially the Statement line...so who knows.

Wavetrader

Wow I was just looking at your system. I think you need larger speakers in that room to breath out a little bloom.

Just kidding here. I would go with smaller speakers, even a nice monitor speaker. To get that sound staging you like you will need to get them out from the back wall a little and toe them in will you.

Jafox

That is perfect.

You will not win any cheesecake from me however.

My own definition of bloom. since I have seen another, is similar to having a forward soundstage but particularly with transients. The sound comes out at you. "Aggressive" is a synonym but also implies bass transients. It's fun but annoying after a while.

Wow sounds like virginity...lol. All is not lost I have my other preamp that I used when I had the "bloom" but the NBS old Masters are gone to the cable guy in the sky....Walter...lol. OK...in goes the old preamp..for *****&grins.

I would have bet a cheesecake that Mrtennis would enter this thread and point to bloom as a tonality affect. Some things never change.

In my experience, bloom has nothing to do with tonality. Bloom has much to do with the amount of time the fundamental note will last. The piano is THE test here. The texture of the note, i.e., its signature made up from a grouping of strings, can be discerned.

Does the piano note fundamental immediately terminate without any follow on harmonic decay? If so, there is no bloom. This is the classic failure of digital in its early years. And unfortunately, far too many line stages destroy this capability as well. No peaks or valleys in the tonality curve are going to make or break this characterization.

The other half of the picture is the harmonic overtones, the harmonic decays, i.e., the follow-on, of that strong fundamental note. This tends to be more about the system's low-level resolving capability to hear the sound diminish for a long time in a silent background. Without the bloom, you never get to this point. But a strong bloom does not guarantee the long follow-on.

Cables can indeed destroy such system capabilities, but unless you have electronics that can pull this off, cabling is not going to matter.

which nbs cables, supposedly created the bloom you experienced ? that is, if i wanted to find them and buy them, dwhat would i look for ?

it sounds like what you describe as bloom = attenuation in the upper mid/lower treble and bump in the upper bass or lower mids.

What you have experienced and lost might take some time to achieve again if you have made so many changes.

Four years ago I had NBS Statement cabling (ICs, PCs, Spkr Cable) throughout my system of Bat/Aesthetix/CAT electronics and SoundLab speakers. The midrange textures and bloom was outstanding. But once I started to try other cabling, I became aware of the grain, mediocre resolution in the upper octaves and limited dynamics of the NBS cables. For a brief period of time I gave up some of that bloom but it was worth it to hear a wealth of detail on the top that the NBS was clearly truncating. The Purist Dominus was a step in the right direction but even this cable had limited top-end extension that I had experienced from the Kubala/Sosna cables. Ultimately I found what I was after with cables from Stealth, Dream State and Jade Audio. Not only do I now have every bit of the midrange magic that I had before with the NBS but the much greater resolution now allows for more silence between the notes and thus longer decays and ambiance and detail behind the speakers.

Even with all the benefits in cable changes since the NBS cables, I feel that everything here revolves around the preamp, mainly the line stage. So very few line stages can pull off the incredible degree of bloom/decays/ambiance. And no amount of cabling is going to bring this back. A tube preamp with a tube regulated/rectified power supply seems to be the required element.

An interesting side note was that power cables started to make a dramatic effect in the system, most notably, dynamic contrasts, when the NBS cables had been removed from the system.

Before you spend lots of time and money with cable trials, I suggest that you find a way to try a tube line stage with a tube PS in your system.

John