Cripes what a question.Best and in ultimate sonics or best VALUE?Assuming you mean former and I would go listen to B&W 803 @$8K with incredidible new Diamond tweeter and bass that equals former 802N or hear 802D.Read reviews.Revels(maybe buy used) are big with HT crown.I'd also go listen to Avantgardes Uno/Duo and buy used with good SET.Since you've been through some of the best and not be satisfied.Maybe the $20K Aerial used in tough bargain used buy.Had fantastic reviews.But damn you didn't like the Pearls?You should probably make sure you have good sources,cables,dedicated line/power codntioning that would allow speakers to perform.Garbage at beginning of chain can't be perfumed over and you are taling about a ruthlessly revealing level of speakers so also check up line and make sure you don't have weak link holding you up.Lastly if not intimidated by latest tech check out DEQX pre/pro.First read NHT Xd review in Stereophile online than 6moons.com reviuew of the $3,600 preocessoir itself.Might be the future of Hifi as much or vene more than digital amps.Had buddy make a pair of 20 year old Dahlquist sound as good as a $10K Class A stereophile speaker by tecking the old speakers and tweaking not only room but speaker itself (takes over crossovers in digital domain and optomizes signal to make cabinest,drivers etc work to their optimal limits whioch just powering up a pair of speakers being fed power does not do.I am a tube and LP guy but have been thinking about buying in myself with my glass power amp and $7500 German horn speakers to see what happens.It's tech not for the tech phobic but might,again be the future.
Two of my favorites that can be found used for under $10K are the Legacy Whispers and the Thiel CS7.2.
$10,000...I'd find a larger pair of Apogees... (the Fullrange comes to mind), in need of repair.
Send them to Bill Thalmann at (MUSIC TECHNOLOGY, INC.) for total ribbon rebuild...bah-da-bing, under $10,000 "world class speakers".
Something along this line: I love the new clear plastic wings on these.http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k280/sogood51/Full-range_overview.jpg
Why buy used? Check out a new pair of VMPS 40's. It has won numerous shows for "best sound of"....It is $6900 new. 66" tall, easy load, effortless sound, expansive, articulate, accurate and pinpoint imaging.
Consider the $18000.00 Snell Type A Reference. Both Sterophile
Class A and Audio Critic said one of the best he's heard. I have a pair for $5500.00 Read up on them. Thanks. Joe
Magnepan 20.1s. At least that's what I would do if I could afford them at the approx. $7500-8k range used. The only problem is I would need a bigger listening room. Factoring in the new house I would need to buy with the bigger listening room brings the cost well over the 10k mark. Drat! Almost talked myself into believing I could afford them.
I have auditioned several pieces of equipment on a set of ProAc D80s. I was impressed. They will absolutly fill a big room, but they like a great deal of juice to get the woofers going.
I second Tom_Hankins on the Thiel 7.2. I recently added a pair to my system. Unbelievable.
I think it would be helpful in making a recommendation if you would i) take each of the three speakers which you mentioned and describe what you liked/disliked and ii) were specific about what type of sound or what attributes you value most. This would allow someone to make an educated suggestion. It is doubtful even at the $10k price point (used) you will find a speaker that will do everything that you want. The same would probably still be true at $20k.
Take a look at Tyler's Woodmere. Tell us what you think.
Lots of great speakers mentioned already and there are several other world class speakers up to that price point on the used market. Given my listening preferences, I'd probably go for the Avantgarde Duos (maybe with some Edgarhorn Seismic Subs on the side), but in terms of what I'd recommend to others, it wouldn't be a recommendation, it would be a list. The list would probably include Avantgarde Duos, Magnepan 20.1s, Soundlab M1s, and Avalon Eidolons (and given another few minutes, I could come up with another few probably). There's too much difference in the way people listen, and construct their systems, to recommend a single kind of speaker.
How about the Eggleston Andra II's.
There are many many to choose from but dollar for dollar the Von Schweikert VR-4SR and VR-4SE are tough to beat. If by chance you are dissatisfied, you'll have little trouble moving them.
Revel Salon and Revel Salon2's seem like a pretty good speaker for the under 10K used speaker.
price is not relevant. you have to try speakers for yourself and see what you like
geithans would be my choice
Yamaha Soavo ns-f901's !! They can play with the BIG BOYS !!
Who knows? So many good ones but nothing I know of that I would replace the ones I have with.
THIEL CS 2.7 or CS 3.7 -
these are my reference loudspeakers. The most significant factor between these 2 models is the fact that the CS 3.7 requires and prospers via a larger room ...20x20, 25x25 or 30x30.
Like me, if you seek true "timbre" in music, then look no further. Happy Listening!
MAGICO S3 sounds good to me.
20 plus responses, 20 plus different answers.....Is this really useful?
It's the internet....who cares about useful...They are having fun. In the last couple of years I've been to many dealers and also homes of friends trying to find the best system that I could afford. I'm still trying to sell off much of my 3-4 systems that I've had over the years. I decided ahead of time that I wanted to find ONE dealer who I trusted and get what goes together and not just the BEST RATED product as they often times won't work well together. I figured if I could find someone with a similar ear, they'd carry what I wanted anyways. Then it became a matter of how would they respect my budget.
I write the above to share where my feelings are coming from. I'm have been a Quicksilver/Proac/MIT guy for well over 20 years. I have other systems with a couple of Onix integrated with smaller Proacs (all still available, lol). Tons of top of the line MIT cables too. I even have a Rotel TT with VdH MM cart and a Krell Stealth/Cal transport.
Again, MY ear loves emotion, but the immediacy of the music. I love a HUGE soundstage IF it's there. I love the imaging too. I had that in spades. My old systems sounded GREAT in MY room. I guess it was 'tuned' properly. I decided it was time to sell everything and fund a system for the rest of my life. I had no idea how much I wanted or could spend as so much depended what I could get for my older stuff. I knew that I wanted to upgrade the Proacs a they were just so different and evolved. I guess I was a Proac guy. I found out the closest dealer was in NJ, over 2hrs away. I had a lot of local places here in CT, but I was in Verona, NJ for a wedding over a year a go and realized that dealer for Proac was located there. I took my then 92 yo dad and brother to listen to the new Proac's before the wedding. I met a GREAT guy who I trusted quickly. He played the new D series Proacs and they blew away what I was using (as they should)...warmer, but with the same great things that make Proac great. Then he told me to sit and listen to the Vandersteen Treo's....I said thanks but no thanks. I met Richard years ago and liked his 2's, but when I went to buy them with my ex a couple of years later, I was told to listen to the demo Proac Supertowers and they absolutely blew away the Vandy's...More money, but worth it. I didn't like the Vandy sound....
What a difference 20 years makes. I was floored. My DAD was floored....brother too and he was a Proac guy himself!
I've heard the Legacys, Rockports, Magicos, Focals, Maggies, Proacs, Clearwave, Harbeths, AN's, Theils, Revels, Dynaudio, B&W, Apogees, ML and way too many more to list, but you will find the names in nearly any thread. Very few I haven't heard. I used the price range of under 20k used or new.
I now use Ayre gear in balanced mode. I use very good AQ cables and have a Basis TT with MB cart. I've heard this system with a few other speakers and it gets out of the way and lets you hear the recording IF the speaker let's you. Personally, I have LOVED the used Avalon's in the under 10k used. I have enjoyed many speakers, but for listening for long periods AND getting eventing else I love, the Vandersteens can't be beaten. You can afford a pair of nicely used 5A's for under 10k. Of you can get newer Quattro's if that fits your room best. I went with new Treo's. I may upgrade later on, but right now I love them. I've found the Vandy line (the upper end stuff we are talking about) to have the fastest mid range in the market place. it makes a HUGE difference to me. Again, MY opinion.
I'd at least put the Vandy 5A's on your short list to listen to. JMHO...
I just picked up a pair of Shlabotnik 3.5's, to replace the Yukobuvitch Rubellites (rarer than diamonds) I had previously. The Shlabotniks normally retail for over $20K but you can only buy them in Gdansk, and only if you have an FSB connction who can put you in touch with "the right people". I got mine for $9999, just under your target. When I listen to them, I not only get that toe-tapping jump-around-my-room-like-John-Travolta-on-the-bleachers-in-"Grease" feeling, but I find myself with the desire to rub strawberry preserves on my nipples - surely not what the Shlobotnik designers initially intended, but absolutely something that would fall into the PRAT category. This would be my recommendation, completely disregarding the fact that this thread is now 8+ years old and for all we know the OP is now living on an island somewhere in the Pacific catching his own fish with a stick and spending his recreational time staring at a soccer ball he's named Willie.
Now, if you really want to get picky, let's talk about those records that we used to cut out of the back of Kelloggs cereal boxes, because I just discovered that combining one of those with a Stigmata 3.0 power cord can make believe there are apparitions in the room.
Well, since someone decided to reopen this thread, maybe they thought it would be fun to post on. Why would you make such a condescending post and be such a jerk about a thread that some of us are having fun with? Are you better than all of us? Do you feel better to come and rain on everyone's party? Go listen to your Kellogg records and create your own thread that's right up to date and it will make you feel much better I'm sure.
I second the earlier mentions of the Legacy Whisper and Revel Salon 2's. I would think you would be struggling however to find a pair of Magico S3's for under $10k any time soon. Infinity IRS Beta's can be found in good shape for under $10k used, but their age and lack of replacement parts precludes me from recommending them.
Personally I vote for TSW Apogee Duetta Signatures which offer remarkable sound for the money, whilst in a smaller room or where less critical speaker placement is required, I vote for the [url=http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-marten-design-coltrane-alto-low-hours-excellent-condition-2014-12-13-speakers-92868-orange-ca]Marten Coltrane Alto's[/url] on A'gon at the moment. They were $22k speakers back in 2004, and even at that price Marten weren't really making any money on them due to their extremely complex design and carbon/kevlar monocoque construction.
Well, if I had a big enough room I would get a pair of Dunlavy SC-Vs or Duntech Sovereigns or Princesses. They can be had for well less than $10K, and while not the last word in transparency they still serve the music well. I don't regret selling my Princesses, but I do miss them.
Lighten up, Ctsooner, I was just messing with you guys. Didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, or make anyone feel smaller. I'll try to be more serious going forward - no more Travolta or Stigmata references, promise.
gator, didn't really hurt my feelings at all. Was enjoying this thread as are others and didn't want it threadjacked. You can be anyway you want. Your references would have been funnier if you had anything to share, but your post has nothing to do with this thread and a few of us construed it as you putting us down by making fun of it and pointing out when it was started. I would assume that anyone who's reading this thread knows the dates of it.
It' the internet and folks often don't come off as they think they are. Your thread just came off as someone who thought it was a stupid thread because it was started a few years ago. I was emailed by two about your post, so when I read it and it had nothing to do with the thread other than making fun of it, I read it the some way as the others. Why do you feel the need to mess with anyone, especially when you don't know us? I would say most of us are pretty 'lightened up' and I sure don't need anyone to tell me to lighten up. I'd have to care about you or have you make a personal attack before my feelings would be hurt, however I've been posting on boards since the net opened and have learned not to take anything, including my self that seriously (well, most of the time).
So do you have anything to add to the thread? What speakers have you heard that you would buy under 10k?
I don't know if it is the best, but I bought a used pair of ProAc Response D-40r for less than $10K and I am very impressed with them. You can see my system in the link below.
Best of luck in your search.
Another speaker that represents excellent 2nd hand value is the Living Voice OBX-RW which can be had under $10k used.
This is a good thread, especially since it is what I've been considering lately. I would agree with the Vandersteen 5A's and the Treos, as I have actually heard them both. All you big city guys can audition speakers, I guess, although the changes in the business have forced out a lot of retail audio places who carried a good speaker line. I am in the wilds of west Texas, and I don't get to listen to a lot of different speaker brands. I have a pair of Thiel 2.4's, added a Krell fpb 300 and Krell Evolution 222 to feed them, and was impressed. So then I shipped in a pair of Thiel 5's, and now am adding a CAT 600.2, can't wait to hear those together. If not totally happy, I will go with some Thiel 3.7's or 2.7's, and get my house back.
I would 2nd any chance to get the Joseph Audio Pearl2.
These speakers are on my short-list to demo. I did hear, on several occasions, the JA Pulsar & Perspective models. Very nice speaker, but each is missing (at least) the top octave and bottom (2) in their respective registers.
The Vocals are outstanding! Keep me posted on the models you do demo and happy listening!
I feel your pain about not being able to audition many speakers, as I am in East Texas! I've been researching a lot lately on speakers under $10,000 as well. I recently got a Krell FPB400cx, so I should be able to power most any speaker I get.
How do you compare the Vandersteen 5A sound to Thiel 2.4 sound? I never tried any Thiel in the past because they always said you need a powerful amp, which I did not have at the time. How are the Thiel 5s?
Great amp Mtrot! I have both 2.4's and 5's right now. I have compared the two speakers side by side driven by the Krell FPB300, and of course the 5's are full range with 24 hz bass, so they outperform the 2.4's, but the smaller speakers hold up pretty well. The 2.4's image precisely, with a broad soundstage and detailed presentation. I use the 2.4's with the HT as mains, but only because the 5's are so strong, with a huge soundstage. I wish I had a room they could set up with 5' on rear and sides, but can't. The 5A's are more of a full range speaker with lower base than the 2.4's, so that's a fairly easy call, but these 5's are something. I couldn't make the call right now. For 3k, which is what I paid, the 5's or 5i's are a killer deal if you have the amplification, and you do! I have no reason to try some 7.2's, as Thiel dealers have admitted to me that if you can set them up right, with the right power, the 5's are the best Thiel made..I'm waiting for delivery of a CAT 660.2 I found on Audiogon at Saturday Audio ...Stay tuned!
Guys, John from Audio Connection in Verona NJ will tell you how to set up the 5's in this thread if you ask. He's the best I've met and as I've said, that's why I drive nearly 3 hrs each way to do business with him. I never loved the Theil sound as I"m very very sensitive to fatigue and the highs have always been too much for me, but that may be the equipment they use...The Vandy's will give a more musical presentation. Richard listens a ton of live music. We spoke about that last month. Many don't understand his 'sound' as it's not really a sound. It's what he feels live sounds like. Bigger amp will give you more dynamics. No feedback amp (ayre) will give you a quiet noise floor...they are as neutral as I've heard and that includes Rockports and other exotics. I can listen to music all day long on them as they stage and image but only what's being passed to them from the source and amps. Harbeth and speakers like that are listenable, but aren't as detailed in the attacks as the Vandys are. That's where even more emotion is located. Some shops say listen how detailed these are or how clear and they probably haven't heard live in years. It's the mid bass through midrange that matters and when you are as quick as the Vandy's are in this range, THAT'S what makes them so special. As you already know Michael, even the Treo's are faster than most panels, but convey more emotion and sound like you are THERE....plus the 5's are easy to set up with that powered woofer due to the Q or something like that..I listen and am not an engineer, lol...Ask John though and you'll die with the difference...I was a Proac guy and nearly got new D40's, but side by side(John also sells and loves Proacs) it wasn't close and the Treo's new are a lot less. JMHO
Picked up the audio physics caldera ii for 3500. It's an older speaker but rarely see for resale. Well reviewed in 1998 when they came out. Same drivers as the Wilson Watt. Original list near 20k. Really like them now that I have an amp to drive them.
Can it be a used REL B1 sub to go with a new pair of monitors? (-:
I have not heard a number of speakers listed here but I have heard a good number and did very extensive auditioning two months ago. I auditioned a new speaker that made me switch from "Dynguy" after following and owning the brand for many years.
After I heard them I was in love! Ordered on the spot over two months ago and my dealer says they may make it by Christmas or at least New Years!
The new KEF Reference 1 stole my heart this time. Really an incredible speaker and the best that I have heard within my budget.
I plan on leaving some nice whiskey for Santa early next week instead of cookies and see what happens? A pre-Christmas delivery would be awesome as I have been in queue for two months as they bring production up in England.
The first review it seems: I think he likes them? I have the REL and I'm ready to go!
Happy Holidays all!
I'm pretty surprised someone was able to get JA Pearls for under 10 grand and is still looking for speakers. I'd be so done.
A pair of well-kept JBL K2 S9800SE's at or slightly above $10,000 would be if not a steal then a "competitively priced" and very capable alternative to most anything out there - depending of course on ones personal taste.
To my mind the S9800SE's are speakers that haven't received the praise and attention they deserve. Perhaps many an audiophile would hold in scorn whatever resembles the sight of a horn fitted to a compression driver and/or a 15" driver (not least acting as a midrange), and while this driver combination arguably sets itself apart sonically to the more common driver configuration used in "hifi" speakers in general, I'd wager this direction holds more pro's than con's - for several reasons.
I find below linked review (of the non-SE edition) illuminating on the overall sonic nature of the S9800's:http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/jbl_k2_s9800.htm
I heard the B&W 802D's in a treated room with Electrompaniet amps and preferred even my old classic Infinity Renaissance 90's. I've never liked B&W's diamond tweeter which I find fatiguing. I would think the TSW Apogee Duetta Signatures, Living Voice OBX-RW or the Marten Coltrane Alto's up for sale
on the 'Gon would sound more musical.
For me I have the same feelings as Melbguy. Even the diamonds were too hot for me. I heard them with top of the line Classe and Hegel..The Hegel's were way too hot. Classe's were ok, but not smooth in the way live music is for me.
BUMP, Come on what would you guys spend $10k 2018 dollars or so for a pair of speakers? new or used... watts are cheap these days so just about anything can be powered affordably.
If I had ten grand to spend on used speakers it would be big active ATCs.
Another thread had a poster get a used pair of Vandersteen Quatro CT's for under 10k and he is in love. Said set up was fairly easy and he loves his system again. Happy for him. So many top choices here since it's often the sweet spot of folks lines.
Another thread the OP did what I did and bought a pair of revel salon2's. Someone posted he resold the salons pretty quick after raving about them. Revel is confident their spinorama is a foolproof path to musical perfection, but every speaker is a compromise and so it will still come down to personal preference, associated equipment, and room. IDK maybe 37 years of construction finally caught up with me and the sound i'm listening for is lost, or maybe big speakers are harder to place in a room to get they're best? Dunno, but 2 other speakers i've seen touch the $10k mark here that I REALLY want to hear are the AZ Crescendos and VA 'The Music'. Focal also recently released the Kanta 3, but it may be awhile b4 they come down to $10k.
The Ultima 2 series trades off air for linearity in the mids. You can see on the off axis graphs the output above 8.5KHz drops off sharply past 15 degrees.