What is the best DAC ever made?

I've heard alot of buzz about the Berkeley DAC, but have no idea how it might compare to some of strong units from a year or two ago, not even sure that there is much real progress being made in digital processing, the "numbers" seem to get better, but not sure thaqt necessarily makes for better sound.

Just update to my post above.

I have settled on the Zanden Transport and Zanden DAC signature since last two years. I also use the Zanden DAC with the Kalista Transport (no longer have the c2a signature DAC) but the best digital sound for my preference now is still the Zanden combo.

i hope the buzz about the berkeley that pubu157 brought up is correct...i've been waiting 4 1/2 weeks for one and it should be here next week! i have read some awfully strong stuff about it from pretty credible sources, not the typical fanboy hype...

The best DAC I've heard so far is the one I am currently using built by Alex Peychev of APL Hifi - Denon 3910 chassis, 4 32-bit 1st-generation AKM Dacs, digital input, Class A tube output stage, etc.

I'm also fortunate in that it appears later this week I will finally receive the first APL stand-alone Super-DAC consisting of most of the mods done to create the amazing NWO-4.0SE, including 20 second-generation AKM 32-bit DAC chips per channel.

As good as the 3910 DAC is (and it is VERY good in my system) the new one promises to be substantially better. That's difficult for me to conceive of at this point, but Alex has never let me down, so I guess we'll see how it sounds in my system. He is well known for pushing the digital envelope in a good way, so I'm pretty excited.

Fplanner2010, if its anywhere near the NWO-4.0-SE, you will be dissapointed, NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm very curious how the Berkeley might comparte to Zanden, Accustic Arts, Esoreric, DCS, and other DACs of that ilk.

My APL "NWO-DAC prototype" as it is being called,should be here within the next few days. I know the boards will probably need a good 200-300 hours of break in if they are similar to the other AKM chips I've got. This probably won't be too painful a process......

Where is he working this month, Pakistan? Afghanistan?

LOL

California currently - too many bullets in the countries you mentioned......

Why anyone would still trust APL after everything that has happened is beyond me.

Precisely my point.

He's a fringe player and can't be taken seriously.

Bill, those countries reside in Asia. Bulgaria is in Europe.
Bar, Im not familiar with your experience with APL, but sometimes when you go to a bespoke shop the waiting time can be a little longer. From what I know there are no outstanding orders and the people that actually own the products are very happy with them. I dont know how many owners/designers you get to talk to direct when you phone them. APL can easily be reached by phone if you phone during regular hours.

The drama surrounding APL is well publicized; Alex dug his own ditch.

On an unrelated note, bespoke is a term applied to clothing.

I know where Bulgaria is located; it is very easy to find on a map.

The same cannot be said for APL.

Bar, let me recommend Tom Mahon.

Is he your tailor?

I know where Bulgaria is located; it is very easy to find on a map....The same cannot be said for APL.

Ouch! (though, it gave me my first chuckle of the day, Bill)

Dodson 218, with latest software. Still up there, IMHO.

Neal Glazer

Bill:-) google apl hifi and then its the first hit.

Irrespective if its hand made suits, hand made watches or hand made electronics, some things in life are worth waiting for.
But to get back on topic the APL NWO-4.0-SE is by a wide margin the best source Ive heard and it has the flexibility to accept Wi-Fi in or computer by wire.

>>11-12-09: Perrew
Bill:-) google apl hifi and then its the first hit.<<

I did.

It directed me to Bernie Madoff's website.

Bidat.

Oh, and bespoke is certainly not limited to just clothing, while yester-year it may have been used primarily in reference to clothing, it is used for nearly all things custom made and usually of a more high-end nature :)

Bill, Im sorry if you invested with Madoff but if it looks like sharpe 5 you can take it for sure the performance is fake. This player on the other hand is for real, I have it right here.

We get it. You drank the kool aid. Now let it go. No amount of your denials is going to make the truth about APL disappear.

Bar, I drank it and it taste mighty fine. Businesses evolve over time. If I buy a product and I can have it upgraded over time when new innovations are made I consider that valuable and a good investment.
Im sure you like to drink something as well so lets hear what it is and we can discuss the pros and cons of the best dacs.

Perrew- The new and only APL-NWO Super-DAC prototype is now in my system. WOW!! Alex has done it again!! You know what I am hearing, as do other 4.0-SE owners. The rest of you can just be jealous behind your APL-bashing.

To each their own, I suppose, but my faith in Alex is once again rewarded with an amazing piece of gear. I waited quite a while for this and got pretty frustrated, but was the wait worth it?

D E F I N I T E L Y!!!!!!

People were jealous of Corvair and Edsel owners at the onset.

But then again, Ford and GM never re-located to some third world country and hide out for months on end.

Dr. Livingston I presume?

A curious hypothesis-only those who live in "third world" countries can come up with the same dumb ideas that came out of our auto industry. I don't expect that you have ever heard the APL equipment.

I've compared Berkely with AA Tube DAC and Emmlabs DAC2.
AA DAC in compare with Berkeley is just bad.
DAC2 is very close to Berkely, but a bit "digital" in the midrange in compare.
Interesting to compare with DCS Scarlatti.
I think it is the only real competitior for Berkely.

Playback Designs, either as a stand-along DAC or as part of the MPS-5 disc player.

Dave

Murataltuev, curious when you did your comparison between the Berkely and AA Tube DAC what your system set-up consisted of along with what tubes you had in the AA Tube DAC.

I have not directly compared the Berkely as of yet but have put the AA up against many other DAC's costing substantially more and it never sounded "bad" Actually it sounded so good that I currently still use it.

If you could also describe what you did not like.

Dev, did you, like Teejay, also have an opportunity to compare the Tube DAC with the DAC MKIV? I´m not sure why, but I do get the idea, that all the DACs discussed are beyond bad, all quite excellent, but we like to find differences; what a hobby is really all about. The new EMM Labs gear has me interested, but of course so much of this gear is actually difficult to audition, but under show conditions at RMAF or something like that.

The Berkeley is a very fine DAC, no doubt about it, but the best DAC ever made? That's a tough one!

Who knows what the best DAC is? No one can try every one of them. But I have tried recently in my system, the Ayre QB-9, Levinson, DCS Scarlatti and the Berkeley, and the Berkeley is my favourite. The preference is large in all cases except the DCS.

Anybody try Audio Note?

I can't speak to what Alex is or isn't doing. I currently have his prototype Super-DAC and am breaking it in.

I've read a number of positive things about Audio Note DACs and am still wondering if anyone either has one or has heard one.

Thanks.

Hi Fplanner2010,

I have an AN 4.1X Balanced DAC...it mesmerizes me. It's listed in my system.

Best,
Sam

Dacbuyer -- you used the Ayre with USB, but was was your source and method of connection with the other DACs?

Thanks Sam. Bill - give it a rest.

> Drubin: you used the Ayre with USB, but was was your source and method of connection with the other DACs?

USB to Ayre and to Scarlatti when using upsampler, otherwise optical out from Mac Mini.

>USB to Ayre and to Scarlatti when using upsampler, otherwise optical out from Mac Mini.

You preferred optical out to the Berkeley over USB to the other two?

> Drubin: You preferred optical out to the Berkeley over USB to the other two?

Yes, very much so.

Recent coverage of USB DACs might have left the impression that the new approaches to doing USB well are automatically superior to older means of connection. I do urge using your ears, and your system, to come to a conclusion on that topic yourself. It certainly isn't my experience.

Dev, I know that AA Tube DAC is better than many.
But Berkeley and Emmlabs in another league.
After comparision in my system, we did it in another and result was the same. I strongly recommend you to try one of this DACs.
Tomorrow I'll have a chance to compare them with dCS Scarlatti.

Murataltuev,making such a statement suggesting these are in another league is very bold.

I'm quite interested in what you heard in your system. Please share some details regarding the sonic differences between them.

See below what Teajay's experience has been

11-13-09: Teajay
If Pubul57, had not beat me to the punch, I was going to add to this thread way I still find the Accustic Arts Tube DAC to be a keeper in my system.

I have spent a considerable amount of time listening/auditioning the following new crop of either DACS or CD players: 1) Berkeley Alpha DAC 2) Weiss Medea DAC 3) PS Audio Perfact Wave combo 4) Meridian 808i2 5) DCS Puccini 5) EMM reference player

All of the above were used for red book, I don't care about SACD or other high rev formats, and I did not find any of them to be better to my ears then the AA Tube DAC. They are all quite good and offer different sonic signatures, my favorite among them was the Weiss and Berkeley, I would put them in the type one sonic category, and was surprized at the performance of the Meridian 808i2, it just was ok, yet John Atkinson of Stereophile thiks its the best on redbook he has ever heard. But then at the end of the sonic day, I did not find any of them surpassing the musicality or over all performance of the AA Tube DAC in my system.

I do know that when a friend auditioned a totally broken in EMM Labs SE in my system in comparsion with the AA Tube DAC, he returned the EMM to the dealer and then purchased the AA Tube DAC. In my system the AA DAC was much more musical/natural, all on redbook CDs, and that's way my friend chose to purchase the AA Tube DAC.

Very interesting comparision!
I don't think that it is because of different taste as we was 4 people comparing this DACs.
May be it is system compatibility issue.
In my system AA Tube DAC sounded very bright.
Resolution was very high, but soundstage was desintegrated!
Highs was even irritated.
This two completely different results only means that you need to compare them in your own system.

I cannot speak for the EMM Labs DAC as I now own the CDSA, I also have not owned the AA Tube DAC, but the DAC IV, but after listening to more and more music with the EMM in MY system, I have to agree that the EMM offers much more information, specifically as it relates to the intonation of instruments and voice that communincates more of the performance to me than the AA MKIV did. Maybe this is all hairsplitting since all of this gear provides execellent perfromance, but the EMM is the best I have heard after having previoulsy owned NAIM, ARC and AA. So much of this is personal taste and system context, but the EMM gear is providing performance that I would choose over my previous gear. I hate be too enthusiatic over this stuff, but I think EMM is doing something right that really appeals to me in my system with jazz recordings. I have not even ventured down the road of SACD performance on this machine; which is almsot universally seen as far superior to what Redbook can provide.

Hi Murataltuev, Thx for the response. My system consist of different pces than Teajays, firstly he has MAG 20 panels and I use MBL 101E speakers and at no time have I ever heard my AA Tube Dac sound as you put it "very bright", "soundstage desintegrated" and lastly "highs irritated"

I'm at lost for words!

This is totally off the wall, something most defiantly was wrong going on in your set-up but most defiantly not the characteristics nor fault of the AA Tube Dac.

Now I can understand your remarks in your prior posting but something else was going on, too bad you did not get to hear the real characteristics.

There is NO such a thing as the best DAC ever made. And there won't be one!!!!

Hi Dev,

When I say "bright" or "desintegrated", I mean in compare with...
Guy who bring Tube DAC said that this DAC is best he ever heard.
But after comparision in my system and than in his own, he agreed with me. So, this is just good expirience for you to think to try to compare.
As for me, after Emm and Berkeley I'm moving to Scarlatti.
All the rest sound poor in compare!
For my taste.

Dev, did you have the ARC CD7 prior to the TubeDAC? Did you have a chance to audition the latest versions of the EMM and or Berkeley? I'm sure the Scarlatti is good (I would hope so), but really viable for me. I think all of these are likely to be excellent, none is poor - but I will say that the EMM (CDSA, upgraded version) is very impressive to me.