What is new with the Memory Player?

Tbg - it was a special audition after exhibit hours arranged by Clement Perry with Rick Schultz. Went from 8 -10pm. That's probably why you didn't notice it.

"In comparisons of the original CD recording vs. those uploaded and played back through the HD of the MP this was also evident."

The MP does not playback from the HD. The HD is only used for storage. Files are played back via the solid state flash memory.

To Bigamp,

I got my Memory Player back after George did a couple of upgrades to my player, which I got during HE 2007, and right after the show we were too busy putting the sound rooms back together again.

Anyway there is more to the Memory Player than what you surmise: for one: the software is quite different than EAC and a ram disc is still ram setup as a virtual space on the hard drive, which means you will still have timing errors.

There are a lot of hidden tricks which they are doing.

On the Memory Player you rip the data without ECC to the Memroy and then load the Memory onto a hard drive to store the data, then on playback you reverse the process.

You can playback from the Hard drive which Bigamp would be working exactly as you describe, you can also playback from memory which sounds much superior! I did those tests this weekend.

The Memory Player sounds like no other digital source I have heard, it really sounds like you are listening to a live recording!

How is their DAC? Or, do you use another one , feeding it from the memory player?
Also, is there a way to use a hard drive to load the songs to the MP? The reason I'm asking is that I am going to computer-based audio in some way shape or form, and I'm trying to figure out the best way to do it.

Thanks,
David

Audiooracle:

Anyway there is more to the Memory Player than what you surmise: for one: the software is quite different than EAC and a ram disc is still ram setup as a virtual space on the hard drive, which means you will still have timing errors.

Actually, a ramdisk is the opposite of what you describe. A ramdisk is a virtual hard drive IN RAM. It's a chunk of RAM that appears as a hard disk to the computer. They're fast, because they're RAM and there's no disk access (and no timing errors). And since the ramdisk RAM is reserved and contiguous, no other data is mixed in with the music data.

I believe MTU has been using ramdisks to play songs since the late 1970s. And I believe they offered Apple II software/hardware that allowed manipulation and playback of songs from ramdisks in the early 1980s.

I'm not trying to knock the MP. If it sounds great, then great. It's definitely a step in the right direction for audiophiles who don't want to mess with PCs.

I recently had the great pleasure of hearing Clement Perry's reference system featuring the Dali Megaline. I have been listening to systems from the early days of high-end audio and this was only the second time that I was overly impressed with what I heard. The first was one of my earliest introductions to the high-end sound with a system featuring the Beveridge electrostatic many years ago.

Mr. Perry's system, if I understand it correctly, is all digital from the source right up to the final stages of the Behold amplifiers that drive the Dali. The source, and the reason that I am responding in this thread, included the Memory player.

I have been an almost exclusive analog person my whole life. I never liked any digital that I heard. The first hint that digital has come of age was at the recent HE 2007 show at the Hilton in New York City. In particular, to my ears, the Sound by Singer rooms demonstrated how good digital can be. Both the Zanden digital and the dCS digital beat the sound from the turntables easily. In fact in the VTL/Escalante room the same tracks were played side by side- a digital vs. analog shootout. Digital won in my opinion.

Then I heard Mr. Perry's system. Somehow he has crossed the border into making a system sound real rather than just sound good. I have heard many mega buck systems over the years and while many have sounded good none have invited comparison to the sound of live music. This is a singular achievement that Mr. Perry has accomplished and in the digital domain!

The Memory player, being a part of the source of the system, had to have been a major reason for what I heard. Low level details, micro and macro dynamics and great space and air in the soundstage were easily and effortlessly heard. Previously only analog could do this. IMHO, no longer is this the case.

The memory player helps get one closer to the elusive sound of real live music than any other source I know of today. Those who have heard Mr. Perry's system know what I am trying to convey. It takes only seconds to hear it, the superiority of the sound is that evident. It is really hard for this analog devotee to say this but I now know the future does lie in digital. The memory player is leading the way. Maybe someday it will not just be a dream but we all will be able to get some sense of the sound of real music in our homes.

Got it...http://www.stereotimes.com/CD121406.shtml

Took me a while, but googled Mr Perry's review...makes for interesting reading for those (like me) who would like to understand more about this player. This review gives more details about what it is that the MP does, like the way the laser reads data from the CD until its perfect. But obviously not every technical detail, like the software, but some references to their white paper.

So, what's happened for the past 6 months? Have sales of this player stagnated, orders on hold, patents still pending, production problems...who knows.

Will keep following it's progress!

Mtkh1567, and all forum members,
To answer your question, I think the Memory Player's status is growing daily. At present there are 5 writers here at Stereo Times that have purchased the MP. I've received numerous emails asking questions about whether it is the "real deal" and my only steady answer has been "It's the best I've heard thus far."

I think this answers other questions that have been asked in the past on the theory the MP isn't anything more than an over-glorified computer. Well, if that was true then why hasn't anyone come up with a likely alternative as of yet?

In the past 16 months, my experiences with the MP has been far reaching and thus even more interesting since I wrote the review some six months ago. More and more staunch critics of vinyl who've heard it have been dumbfounded. For example, in addition to Saudio's above comments regarding the MP's performance in my system with the DALI Megalines and Behold electronics of a week ago, some weeks prior to his visit a HUGE German distributor had read my review with great intrigue. Obviously, he wondered if this MP was the real deal, he'd import it into Germany. This very important importer got in touch with me and asked if he could come and visit all the way from Germany. My answer of course was YES!

Much like Saudio, this gentleman stated that he's not heard anything digital that attracted him to the music like vinyl so "don't please take it personal if I don't like the sound" he forwarned. Some weeks later he arrived at my front door, we kindly exchanged some nice greetings and in short time headed up to my listening room. I am not sure, but I think it was less than 30 seconds, we downloaded a favorite classical disc onto the MP. Upon playback, I'd say in about 10 seconds, this gentleman stated he'd not heard anything like this before certainly from digital and thought overall, it probably sounded better than anything he's heard. He went on that he knew this disc intimately and that it sounded better than he'd ever heard.

The next two hours were spent confirming everything he heard in those first 10 seconds.

The next few weeks were spent with this gentleman emailing me questions as to the validity of what he heard and if it was really the MP contributing so much of the magic? My only answer was again "it's the best I have heard." This finally led to him purchasing the MP and offering me a sincere thanks for the opportunity to hear it. He's a unit in Germany and swears to it as as good as the best vinyl he's heard. Period.

I was even more grateful because I had heard of this man and knew he was a big-time importer in Europe. So, for me, it was a kind of test to see if this experienced listener had other perhaps unknown products - there are plenty abroad - that mayby none of us heard that might equal the qualities of the MP. Obviously he did not.

My story isn't the only one. Arnie Balgavis, who wrote quite an interesting review on the MP for Positive Feedback has also had the experience of taking his unit on the road to the homes of friends who too are still intrigued by this device. In each and every instance, the results were the same, the MP outshines conventional players to such a degree that in many cases it's almost embarressing. And I'm talking the serioius big boys.

Between Arnie and myself, we've accrued some serious digital players and transports over the years ranging from highly exalted Zanden (my former reference) to the latest 2-piece Esoteric stack (Arnie's former reference) and still none have taken the place of the MP. He's had his over one year as well.

The problem with the MP not selling like hot cake appears numerous. Most importantly, the software is prehistoric compared to what is possible today as Audioracle alluded to. This makes life tough for those of us who might be computer illiterate and have a tough time navigating through two or more screens doing the usual drag and paste things.

That aside, the MP still stands as the new digital reference and as of today, I'm still awaiting something which will reveal that it's nothing more than a glorified PC.

Clement Perry

Mtkhl567, is it your impression that he used an onboard dac? He says he did not, having only the transport version.

I will be receiving my unit (transport only version) on Friday. Wow, I can't believe the day has almost arrived :) Let's hope it lives up to its billing - a tall order from everything that I've read.

I want LIVE music in my room - is that asking too much? We'll see... :)

As promised, I will post my impressions. I am not a reviewer or associated with the company in any way.

I have been reading the website, have to admit it's tough to plough through the huge amount of technical data, although its very interesting, it is sometimes bordering science fiction (ie the rereading of bit data and moving around the laser upto 99 times) and definitely goes way over the average audiophile head.

Seems that there are several versions, or at least an upgrade from the first. Also if you read up on Mr Perry's write up that is confirming this. That review is promising at least from the point of sonic capability. To your question, you have to have a DAC circuit no-matter what, but I could also not determine whether there is one built in. However, nothing on the website points to that.
Henry

Clement's review, although detailed when it comes to the cd sources and the overall sonics from each cd, is completely void of any information about what he paired this MP transport with! ? He makes no mention of the cables, amps, speakers...let alone the actual DAC he uses (very very important, everyone agree?). Furthermore, he even remarks about taking it on the road and putting it up against a Theta transport-dac combo, but no mention what he used, as if it were a "player" not a transport. "Resting side by side next to a high-end transport from Theta Digital using a very expensive digital to analogue converter, the Memory Player clearly outperformed studio house masters!". Also, later in the review he uses player and transport interchangeably, but never divulges his system, his DAC, etc. Finally, later, he says "Next up was a fully loaded Memory Player with its own 32-bit tube DAC and internal volume control going up against the $42,000 digital stack from Zanden Audio... This fully loaded Memory Player belonged to another writer who had invited me over to hear his rig. It was more coincidental than planned that at the same time, another audiophile with serious industry credentials wanted to hear this unit. In addition to having a front-end consisting of the Zanden transport and DAC, he also had the new German ASR amplifiers and the BIG NOLA reference loudspeakers.". Clearly Clement's MP was not the max'd out one with a tube DAC. So what DAC did he use earlier in the review.....and please don't say "it doesn't matter".

I like Mr. Perry's reviews, and I like Stereo Times. Hell, I THINK I like the MP....but....this review is as confusing and contains the same amount of sleight of hand as the rest of this whole Memory Player media coverage. I just don't understand why it needs to be so cloaked, and so confusing. Clement, did you fail tot ell us what the transport was connected to for a reason? Maybe that has something to do with the sound?? Or at least spell out what you used. Any reviewer worth his/her salt would level set a review, especially one that introduces a new concept and a new architecture. No one would let a reviewer write an article about the sound of a cartridge or arm without saying what table it was being used on, for God's sakes, or write up a glowing preamp review and fail to tell what the upstream and downstream signal path was taken through.

I the MP is going to be successful, even on a moderate level with a small niche of listeners, it needs to have a clear light shining on it.

After *navigating* under the specifications heading via the Nova Physics website,
it appears the unit can be had as a digital drive only, or a player with an on board 32-bit tubed output Dac.

I'm not trying to kick up dirt and have no agenda. Just trying to get some information, because I think the MP concept is the way to go.

I think this answers other questions that have been asked in the past on the theory the MP isn't anything more than an over-glorified computer. Well, if that was true then why hasn't anyone come up with a likely alternative as of yet?

I believe they have, sort of. Perhaps not in a commercially-available turnkey package, however.

JRiver (~$40) and EAC (free) have provided bit-perfect ripping for years. Like the MP, I believe JRiver and EAC make bit-perfect copies to hard disk by reading and re-reading until every bit on the CD is recorded to hard disk as an exact copy of the CD original--this can take hours for heavily-scratched CDs. Perhaps the laser doesn't wobble, but in the end you end up with a bit-perfect copy. Ramdisks (Superspeed RAMdisk ~$40) have been around for decades, and people have been playing music files from ramdisks (i.e., RAM.)

Many, like myself, have loaded bit-perfect music files into a ramdisk and played them from there. Until the MP, however, I have not seen a turnkey solution that comes with both bit-perfect ripping software and ramdisk software (or whatever the equivalent is in the MP, if not a ramdisk) already installed. Instead, owners would have to buy and install the 2 pieces of software individually (~$40-80 total).

So, aside from the MP being a convenient turnkey package, I ask what's new here? Posters in this thread have appeared to dismiss that it's merely a PC-based transport with a wave of the hand, but provide no information as to whether the MP does anything different than 1) make a bit-perfect rip, 2) load music into RAM, and 3) play it from there.

I believe that's a reason the MP has taken some heat, particularly from people who've been doing PC-based transports using ramdisks who may see this as nothing new. It appears the MP is being marketed as revolutionary because it plays from memory. Not that this matters, but if I sold something like the MP, I would market it as a way to get the benefits of a PC-based transport without having to deal with PCs - less jitter when you don't read from a spinning disk, software is already installed, playing from RAM is already set up, don't have to understand PCs, etc.

In any event, I think it's a step in the right direction and I wish it much success.

The Behold power amplifiers of Mr Perry each have 8 pairs of Analogue Devices DA converters (the AD1853 to be precise). I don't know if these are of-the-shelve or made to order specially for Behold. But, there you have it. Wonder how much it contributes to the experience of the MP...

I think the concept and player itself needs to be clarified or simplified for more folks to understand.

There still seems to be a bit of confusion with the review and how the player faired as a transport only, or a player with the built in dac.

A lot of variables take place with or without digital cables, power cords and the like.

The Memory Player has great potential if given the right direction, although the trickle-down theory will begin to take effect for lesser cost.

The Behold power amplifiers of Mr Perry each have 8 pairs of Analogue Devices DA converters (the AD1853 to be precise). I don't know if these are of-the-shelve or made to order specially for Behold. But, there you have it. Wonder how much it contributes to the experience of the MP...

And they cost around $50k. My point exactly. If I told you to buy a car cuz I drove it along Hwy 1 in Big Sur country, or along the New England woods during a beautiful fall day...and proclaimed it "a beautiful ride, best I've ever had"...it doesn't tell you much about the car. Could it be a great car? Sure. Could be because of the scenery, or the gorgeous blonde in the passenger seat too.

I have to assume that Clement's comments about the MP are in relation to other transports he's hooked to his ultra-expensive ultra-sophisticated Behold gear, but he's never said so in so may words. He's never even said what he hooks it up to, or with (balanced digtial, coax, etc.), or whether other users are experiencing synergy with this or that DAC.

I guess time will tell. I'm excited for any new development that gives us a better, more real interpretation of the bits encoded on the millions of redbook cd's we have in our combined inventories. And any new discovery will undeniably spawn trickle-down technology, or competitive pressure that improves/expands the discovery and makes it more affordable at the same time. Hell, I can afford $10k now, but this early adopter value prop is still quite shaky IMO.

The Memory Player has great potential if given the right direction, although the trickle-down theory will begin to take effect for lesser cost.

Agreed. As I mentioned, if you already have a PC, you can add bit-perfect ripping and a ramdisk for ~$40-80. Add an Empirical Audio Pace-Car reclocker for ~$1000 and you're down to negligible jitter between PC and DAC. My guess is the MP includes a more accurate clock and better grounding and shielding than a typical PC, but who knows perhaps it doesn't.

I would be curious to hear the MP (used as a transport $10K) head-to-head against another PC-based transport (say PC with JRiver and ramdisk + Empirical Audio Pace-Car reclocker ~$2700 total) into the same DAC.

Bigamp- MP owners must deal with a PC, since a laptop is used as a remote. It should be very easy for them to rip CDs onto the laptop and playback via RAMdisk or flash memory with a USB or Firewire digital interface and compare it to the MP.

This is to Bigamp and to MTKHL,

I have used the player by playing back tracks from Memory vs the Hard Drive, and there is no comparison between the two.

I think that you said all computers play back tracks from memory used as a buffer, so therefore if that is the case there would be no sonic difference.

Also Mr. Perry and his staff have tested EAC copies vs the Memory Player and again there is no contest.

What you fail to realize is that the Memory Player is doing processing that EAC does not do, there are tricks that they are applying to work with the data in an entirely different way then EAC is doing.

I have talked with David Chesky of Chesky records about the Memory Player and he is in agreement with the merits of the Memory Player.

As per Clements system and the Behold amplifiers I am hearing the same thing in my system and I am using Plinius, Edge and Nuforce amps in my showroom and the Memory Player has brought my system up to an entirely new level of sound quality.

Rx8man, right you are. I seek experiences with the Memory Player in an analog system using its internal dac. I have never heard it any way other than as the frontend of the digital Behold system.

The bit-perfect copying can not be the reason this thing sounds as it does. As many have pointed out, it is nothing new. As others have pointed out, even a low error rate in the copying is unlikely to affect the sound. The reason there is controversy about this player is that Nova Physics makes claims that are nonsense to people who know about this stuff. They would do better if they just said they are doing something proprietary in software and leave it at that.

I don't have it handy, but one of the first red flags raised about this product was by Robert Harley, who went out of his way to cry foul regarding the claims of the MP. His point was that it may be doing something great, but not for the reasons claimed. When it comes to digital, Harley is both credible and not inclined to bash anyone unfairly.

I heard the MP at RMAF last year and thought it sounded exceptional and possibly like a real breakthrough in digital. Rational, curious minds just want to know why.

"Also Mr. Perry and his staff have tested EAC copies vs the Memory Player and again there is no contest."

Audiooracle-

What PC playback set-up(s) did they use?

"Also Mr. Perry and his staff have tested EAC copies vs the Memory Player and again there is no contest."

Audiooracle-

What PC playback set-up(s) did they use?

Kana813 - Good point. If the Kmixer isn't bypassed or there's a lousy driver, the sound won't be great. And IMHO EAC playback isn't as good as JRiver or Foobar with a good DirectSound driver. With the right software setup and output via, e.g., USB to a decent USB converter or via S/PDIF to a decent reclocker, the playing field should be leveled.

Audiooracle - Thanks. Interesting to know they made the comparison. Are there any dealers in the Chicago area?

Bigamp,
I am also a resident of the Windy City and would like to find out if this product will be available for a local audition. Bob

Me too.

David

Not to start a forest fire, but I'd like to hear someones impressions comparing the
MP against an APL NWO 2.5T in the near future.

"The Memory Player's 32BIT DAC has NO onchip gain" This is a quote from the MP manufacturer web site.

Ever since the MP was introduced a 32 bit DAC is claimed. To my knowledge, at the time MP was introduced, none of the current DAC manufacturers had a 32 bit DAC chip to offer, and they still don’t.

The part "...NO onchip gain" is also interesting since, again to my knowledge, there is no DAC chip available with gain, many provide attenuation in the digital domain but none offer gain.

Anyone cares to explain? I'd appreciate it.

Regards,
Alex

Alex, you say that none of the current dac manufacturers have a 32 bit dac. Does this mean there is a new manufacturer or that you are doubting that Nova Physics has a 32 bit dac? Why would a dac manufacturer make a dac with gain?

According to Mark (the genius behind the Memory Player) there are in fact 32 bit DACs available and they do in fact use them. This is not marketing spin, it's for real according to him. If you really want to know more Alex, I would speak to him.

It doesn't really matter to me because I have the transport only version, just received yesterday. I will post my review of it early next week, after I have had some time with it.

Tbg, I am not aware of 32bit DAC chip availability so this is why I ask. Who knows, may be such DAC exists and I will be very happy to find out more about it.

Furthermore, there are many currently available Digital Signal Processors with 32bit internal resolution, and there are even some with 64bit "double precision" internal processing but, as far as I know, all of these are equipped with 24bit output ports to interface with 24bit DACs.

For the record, there is a certain approach that was introduced by Denon 15 years ago where they've used proprietary "word expansion" digital filter to convert 16bit CD data to 20bit. This digital filter had two output ports. One 16bit and one 4bit which were connected to 2 separate 16bit and 4bit DACs per channel. So it's possible that the MP uses a similar topology with two separate DACs per channel. It'll be very interesting to find out.

I am also not aware about DACs with gain.

Regards,
Alex

Scottr,
Could you give us your thoughts on the Memory Player transport? Inquiring minds want to know! Bob

Hey Rx8man,

Stirring it up is your middle name and I like it.

La45,

I try to do it in a "nice way" heh, heh, heh.

Well I've had the memory player for a week now and finally have some time to provide you with my thoughts.

A few pieces of background first. I have the transport only version. I partner it with a Dream Prism DA-1 DAC (a pro redbook only DAC worth about $8k new – they don’t market this to audiophiles but it’s an incredible DAC). The rest of my system is Bryston and PMC (active speakers). Room is dedicated and designed by Rives Audio, heavily treated with diffusion.

My goal is “live sound”, I want to be at the venue with the artist. I am not into euphoric,/romantic sound - want it raw, real and in turn musical.

Transport I directly compared to the MP was emm labs Phillips version. I have also owned the more recent emm labs combo(SE transport with non-SE DAC) but sold it because I wasn’t happy with the newer emm transport – on Redbook it sounded very” phasy” and artificial to me, definitely not natural/normal. Of interest, I found the Emm SACD performance much better and more natural but wasn’t going to keep the combo for only SACD. I’ve also had an Esoteric P70 in my system for a brief test – an impressive unit but not enough for me to buy one.

In all cases noted above, I use a balanced and BNC digital cables – BNC is connected for so DAC can serve as master clock to slaved transport. This is also how I have hooked up the memory player.

The MP as has been noted in other reviews does not have an impressive build quality for the price. It’s nowhere close to being in the same league as Esoteric’s build quality. It also has some quirks. The way the power cord goes into the unit at the back precludes the use of a higher end cord because of a weird overhang on thee back of the unit – requires a small connector and very thin cord. I have no idea how sensitive the unit is to PC’s, let’s hope not much. Other thing that freaked me out a bit, is the amount of unit vibration, whether playing from memory or the hard drive. I know how troublesome vibration is to sound – reason I bought SRA stands for much of my equipment. Other thing is with the PC remote, it definitely takes a little while to get used to and lacks some features, like categorization of your music beyond Alphabetic. They provided a way of saving a group of music but for the life of me, I don’t know how to retrieve what I saved. The last quirky thing is with their master clock mode, I can’t simply choose it while the player is on like I have with all other transports, I have to shut the unit down, make sure the DAC is on and then boot back up. Despite all of the quirks, the unit is working without a hitch, no technical problems so far – knock wood 

Quirks aside, how does it sound? I loaded a bunch of my favorite music onto the player and let it run for few days on repeat before I sat down and gave a serious listen. I first listened to one of my favorite Neil Young tracks (down by the river) and in certain respects, it was like hearing it for the first time. It sounded far more real, musical and present to me, particularly when the guitar riffs kick in. It was so striking; I had to immediately switch back to the other transport to verify that I wasn’t hearing things. I wasn’t, this was the real deal! I went on to listen to many other pieces of music from female vocals, rock, classical, jazz and instrumental. They all sounded great.

This transport truly does take CD to the next level – better than anything I’ve heard before and this unit is not going back to Nova Physics. In a nutshell, I find that everything played through the MP is more live (in the room) and musical with sounds from across the stage being so well defined, dynamic, solid and layered. It’s as though there is more resolution, timing and decay to everything. I also notice more image depth on most things.

For me, the MP is the final piece of the puzzle, it delivers the musical engagement that I have been seeking ever since getting into this obsessive and expensive hobby. YMMV.

do yu think your dac has anything to do with the soound - if i used a $600 dac would it sound the same do you think?
Is the transport hte main difference.

thanks

Snargo, I guess it really comes down to the weakest link in your audio chain, including your room. In my case, it was my transport. The MP can only shine to the extent that everything down stream allows it to, including your room set up and acoustics. As such, I would try and build a balanced system and not go too deep in any one area.

Smargo, if the dac did not matter I would be shocked. This is why I am mainly interested in the MP with its 32 bit dac.

Now all we need is for someone to tell us how MP transport compares head-to-head against a PC-based transport, and for
Rx8man, how the MP w/32 bit DAC compares to the APL NWO 2.5T.

Let's hear more feedback from Scottr and possibly others, to help drag this technology outta the closet, it's getting interesting now.

Scott, I hope you live in Chicago so I can visit! Bob

Baranyi, I live in the Toronto area, sorry about that.

How about an excursion to Toronto? The sign up sheet is at my house in Connecticut unless someone is closer..LOL

Scott,
I'm glad to hear of your experiences with the Memory Player. You gave the MP the "real user" experience, not a reviewers view which many folks find hard to believe because we often are accused of being involved in politics, favors and innuendos. Of course, this is not the case here.

Quirks aside (though I've no problems with my dedicated AC cord), you hit the proverbial nail on the head describing the MP despite our industries technical audio wizards statements to the contrary.

My respect for the MPs has grown with each passing day and comparison. On the days when I tend to forget and even take for granted how actually good it is, I'll spend time listening to other players, each excellent in their own way, only to return back to the MP with a new sense of respect and admiration for its sonic superiority. More often, it's more of a feeling than a observation. Sometimes it's not something in the music that I can hear as much as how much I am moved by the grace, ease and flow of an entire performance.

Kana, FYI, the MP has been compared to many other PC based drives modified by a very brilliant designer here in NYC. In each case, none compared to the MPs sonic capabilities. None! What type of PCs these were are still unclear but I'll say most were hand made by a guy who "promised" to match the MPs internal part for part...down to the operating system. These players had high hopes of entering the market until they were compared to the MP.

The MPs software is its ace in the hole and the one thing this person could not duplicate. Hence, their performance falling way short. So much in fact, I still would have to say my Wadia 270SE or Reimyo would be preferred over these MP wannabes.

The MP, I believe, will be superceded by a superior PC based device one day. That's just the way of the world. But in the here and now, I've not seen any to take its crown.

As a matter of fact, I recently compared a very promising new conventional CD player against a very good but now discontinued Reimyo player and the Reimyo soncially aquitted itself from this newcomer to such a degree it made it very hard to even justify WHY this new device exists when products like the Reimyo wind up as classic museum pieces way before their time.

Thinking back, I was one of the first early adopters to SACD and believed it was the cats meow to digital audio. Theoretically, it still may be... but within one calender year I heard standard 16/44 players outperform my beloved SCD1 namely the Electrocompaniet and Accuphase CD players at roughly the same price. In this case, old reliable 16/44 beat out new SACDs theoretical claims and fancy advertising. That experience changed my perspective of what was still possible from "lousy" 16/44 standard discs. What I learned was 16/44 still had lots left to offer with the arrival of newer dac chips while SACD was still in its infancy and wrought with issues.

The MP is another product with an entirely different approach that has not only taken the standard 16/44 playback to levels never believed possible, it literally brings the very inner workings and mechanics of CDs into question.

Rare indeed.
Clement Perry

I would like to hear opinions of how poor sounding cd's perform on the MP...

Does the "RUR" extract more information and improve the sound, or does it just reveal more of the harshness that make some of these cd's unlistenable on highly resolving rigs?

"The MP, I believe, will be superceded by a superior PC based device one day. That's just the way of the world. But in the here and now, I've not seen any to take its crown."

It has already been preceded by the VRS Revelation II.

Askat, what does "already been preceded by the VRS Revelation II" mean? There were VRS systems in the past that preceded the MP. Is that all you mean?

No, I mean the VRS II was conceived before the MP, but it will be awhile before it is ready for prime time. It has technology the MP has, software, plus something else that puts it in another league. That will come out in time. No more will be said here.

Because someone was too generous with info before, the MP was born.

Askat, I heard the VRS at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest two years ago. I had heard much earlier at the VSAC in Silverdale, WA. The more recent unit was far superior and Mr. Sanders seemed like a very nice guy with a very convenient product, but then he vanished. I am surprised to hear that he is still in business.

I must also say that I could make very little comment about the sound I heard coming from it at the RMAF as I knew none of the other components.

"FYI, the MP has been compared to many other PC based drives modified by a very brilliant designer here in NYC. In each case, none compared to the MPs sonic capabilities. None! What type of PCs these were are still unclear but I'll say most were hand made by a guy who "promised" to match the MPs internal part for part...down to the operating system. These players had high hopes of entering the market until they were compared to the MP."

CP-

Mahalo for responding, but this doesn't tell us anything about the software or hardware used.

Since you already have a laptop in your listening room serving as a remote for the MP, I suggest you contact Steve at http://www.empiricalaudio.com and ask to try one of his PC to DAC interfaces.

Or you can contact Anthony at Aberdeen Components(mauimods.com) and ask to try one of his modified SD Transporters or his modified Northstar transport. FYI- He feels these units easily outperform your Wadia 270SE. ;-)