What define "musicality" ? And what constitute "musicality" in audio ?



I think that "musicality" is the most important factor and attribute in living audio experience... The experience of "musicality" i think, cannot be reduced to subjective factors only, nor objective one...It is more easy to describe what it is not, than to describe what it is, perhaps like the experience of God in theology...But for sure if you get it, it seems the most important resultant factor of your audio grid system,you feel it and like it the most...After 7 years i feel it more than ever...The urge to upgrade recess in the background because when you feel "musicality" already at a certain level, you dont believe that it is possible to push that level really higher at an affordable cost... "Musicality" for me, in my words, correlate with realistic musical timbre and voice, fluidity,no harshness at all, no fatigue, and last but not least, listening music and forgetting the sound...

This is my personal my experience, i am curious to read others about that,about their "way" and "means" to live that experience...Thanks to all...
128x128mahgister

Showing 26 responses by mahgister

Very interesting story stray_cat,it is like my own story....I discover that I enjoy that quality the day I listen less to the sound and more to the music...It takes me some years of  experiments and purchase....My best to you...
I really think that natural sound and piano are real test of how natural and musical sound an audio system... But a big classical orchestra is one of a test... 
You are right Snapsc, the joy was the sailing...the journey... But I dont have the money to try many equipment... And I was craving for listening my music, the music I know sometimes for 50 years, but with real quality sound...

Without money, with  some wise purchase, and with my own experiments, and some device of my own design, I had it now; and I dont feel frustrate now when I listen my music because I cannot afford the new gear I read about... Then the joy is perhaps not only the journey but touching the goal in some extent, especially without too much money...

Because I am curious I want to listen your own history about this journey and the means you use for touching the goal (relatively for sure)… 
Thanks and my best to you.. 
I am fond of your story with "musicality"... I enjoy learning...Especially your evaluation and the reasons behind that "musicality" experience in your own life with your own audio system...
  N80, I perfectly know that there is no definition perfectly clear of God nor "musicality"...

But I am here to learn and listen to your own story about that experience... For example in your case how luck or inheritance transform a life without music with a life  with music and a relative "musicality"...

I perfectly know that this term is a metaphor... The experience is not, "God" is a metaphor, living "musicality" also, in the 2 cases, real experience are possible and sometimes real but always  relative to each of us... 
Geoff,you sound like an old men saying that this or that is an illusion...For sure "musicality" is a metaphor for some experience that is relative like an "horizon"...

I am just curious to the history and methods,or purchase, of people here in an audio forum, about this experience that is an horizon toward with all we navigate...Sometimes someone shout "terra" "Terra" and the goal is relatively reached, with this person and his boat(audio grid)… I dont sail anymore now, I am on my island, I have shouted "terra", and I dont think to buy another boat...

By the way, I read about your "peebles" on cable some years ago, that inspire my experiments with stones...And that work, and I dont mock you like stupid people who dont experiment and dont have open mind...That work really on my cable and that was a step toward this experience of "musicality"... Thanks for your inspiration...

But now Geoff you said to me that,no, I am not in India but in America, my goal was an illusion in this travel...Perhaps I am wrong, I am not in India,but I love America,the New India, and for me this great feeling of discovery I called it metaphorically "musicality" or " the new India"... My illusion is my treasure old man...The "terra" was in sight in the end...You know it only if you buy a ship and go for the travel...Thanks Geoff, for some equipment you give to me  along the sail...
geoffkait14,271 posts
03-12-2019 4:05pmMusicality is a mirage, a spectre, a chimera, an illusion. There is no standard for musicality. And there is no ideal for musicality, just like there’s no ideal for sound quality. Everything is relative. As Bob Dylan says at the end of all his songs, good luck. 🤗
snapsc149 posts

So, if you are able to just listen and enjoy, then just maybe you have a musical system....and the rest of the descriptions and definitions don't matter.



And yes I have "musicality" now, I listen to all my files with the same forgetting of the sound, particularly those files I was listen to no more because of their bad  sound...Their sound was most of the times not so bad, it was my system that was not able to give me some basic rendrering of them... Now I listen without changing the files by boredom, or hate, or indifference most of the times... A good system makes what is good, very  good, and what is bad better... For me this is "musicality" gain in my audio system... I am only interested by your history in audio, your way to gain that experience of "musicality" and the reason why you gain it finally, even if it is a relatively hard concept to define, a metaphor, that experience exist for each of us in different modes, or versions, or occasions... Thanks for you interest, understanding and participation...
Jafant thanks...But I have a question, at which step of your audio history do you gain that " musicality" experience in your audio system and why? What are the factors that makes possible this "musicality" experience audiowisely speaking ?
Thanks N80...
Interesting how luck drives sometimes our life, and I understand your "musicality" moment revelation...For example after gaining that audio "musicality"at the end of my 7 years quest I listen now to new music that was not my first love...Jazz for example, I like it very much in my improved audio system... My first love was Bach and choral music and piano with the divine Scriabin, I can listen that on any system even a bad one because I love this music so much... But new musical tastes for me sometimes are possible only in an improved audio system to sound at his best... I am also now interested in therapeutical music,classical Indian music and Persian ancient music or Iranian contemporary music and it is more easy to taste that with a good system...


Ah! thanks very much N80..Very interesting read for me... Your history enlightened my day...Please would you described this miraculous inheritance... I am curious and hooked by your personal story...The story of each one of us is at the end the story of all...Thanks to you... Reading you I understand you so much...
When I was young (20 years old) a friend of mine,older, introduce me to audio...Together we listen to classical music, on his homemade speakers, with relatively good amplifier(phase linear)… I dreamed years after that to listen my Bach on a good system with some "musicality" to my ears... My own system at this times was particularly minimalistic and not so good...

Then 45 years later, i succeed (relatively speaking for sure) to create some relatively good, for the price paid, audio system, even if i never had enough money to buy what I dream for in audio... To touch this dream then i read a lot on many audio forums for the last years, at the end, modulo some information, I succeed by wise purchase with few bucks to devise, with luck and mostly experiments, some audio system with a relative and satisfying "musicality"... The greatest improvements always comes from simple experiments with room and gear , way more than from the purchase of the amp,speakers,dac .etc For sure it is very important to buy the right product, but money dont buy necessarily audio "musicality" nor good taste,nor ears education... This is my simple history and the reason why I am interested by you and your own discoveries...I want to learn and read from you, simply that...Suggestions are welcome,observations are welcome...

If you want to say anything else,be like Geoffkait, always short and sweet, and most of the times funny...
I dont want to argue about "musicality", it is only a metaphorical term that speak about some pleasure suddenly felt after some modification of an audio room or grid, by creative, inventive means or an intelligent purchase...It is an audio forum ,not a linguistic symposium nor a philosophical one... I am interested by you and your walk and particular road and experience in audio toward simple joy... Never mind snobism or stupidity, I only want to listen to some intelligent and sincere lived experience by anyone who has something to communicate apart his own prejudices and boredom or bad faith...I accept smiles and spirit...

By the way I own a Sansui, this is very good but not the holy grail except for the low price, my sex life is good for the past month and perhaps the new one, I had only the normal hearing loss linked to my age...
Musical taste has nothing to do with the personal experience of "musicality" per se... Every one has his taste, and bliss is a democratic possibilities for all biological human entity... I am more than ever curious about the particular experience of "musicality" in audio by each of us...Steps,means, revelations,experiments etc ... I am even interested by what money can buy if you have no other revelation than your last purchase...But I prefer low cost inventive or creative solutions ...
Shubert ... we are all different...
 
For sure it is way more easy to buy costly components and with that buying some  "musicality"... My system all in all cost me 1000 bucks and I am proud to enjoy "musicality" with it, not at your level potential in audio term for sure.... I am curious, what is the most satisfying component purchase in your system or the most important step toward this goal in your audio room or grid?  Thanks for your answer...
Very interesting remarks N80...

Apart of personal musical taste and education, in your own audio system what steps had make possible the experience of "musicality", the vivid impression of pleasure linked to your recorded music ?
Ghosthouse you are right for sure...I concur with you...

But when that is said, what is the factor or the factors that make possible the experience of "musicality" with your system with your music of choice, then with your personal implication in your experience?


For example in reading your post, I enjoy a jazz file from my computer that I had not listen in a while,a musical jazz file recorded in public that I was not enjoying so much in the past; but now I tap my toes... Why? I know perfectly why, the reason is the improvements made crystal clear for me in my audio grid in the last months...I am only curious about your experience...I dont want to detail mine too much here...I want to learn from you all ...
Yes you are right for sure Shubert...

But how to touch this in audio? How do you obtain that for yourself? When do you live this experience the first times or the last times and why? I am interested by YOUR experience, products, tweaks, experiments, to live that "musicality" in your audio room and system... And others like me may benefit from your insight and experience, or enjoy your remarks...Thanks to you...
Ghosthouse and Oregonpapa your point is very good and I enjoy myself the same revelation about " music" with my radio car... The greatest pianists I ever listen to are badly reproduced on cd for example... Then I concur with you 2...

But enjoying "music" is not exactly the same thing than audio "musicality", this is not synonymus though related...I dreamed 7 years ago to buy some audiophile system and I read plenty about that to experience a relatively good level of "musicality" with an audio system grid... I am curious about how others embark this road and succeed...Enjoying music is a thing, enjoying audio "musicality" in reproduction another...I am curious of the experience of others...
Thanks Ghosthouse, I really like your remarks...In particular about top-tier piece of gear,it is not absolutely necessary to buy top-tier electronics for this experience, I am ok with that opinion ...Buying the right product or the more costly one is not the only factor, there is also thinking,experimenting, tweaking,modifying and implementing the different pieces of our audio system in a room...I will wait for more ideas...

My question was only asked to learn what makes for you the "awe musical experience" not like an ephemereal only subjective one,but like also a relatively objective goal relatively accomplished with a minimal audio system created for this experience and assembled by the user,the listener,and the buyer ... Many factors,many opinions, and I like to learn... Like i said i must give their due to the many forums where i learn to create this experience in his minimal format for myself....My best to you
I start this question about "musicality" because it takes me 7 years to had this awe moment with my audio room and audio grid,and to think that I have it now relatively speaking for sure; I can listen music now with satisfaction without thinking back about big "defects" in my audio grid that distract me of the music I want to listen to...

Now for the first time I enjoy without too much thinking about some change, upgrading, or buying... This is the " musicality" I enjoy... I am curious to know what others think about their "musicality" experience in listening...And what is the factors that makes that happened to you...For sure there are many factors that create "musicality" experience...But some factors are more important than others, they are the one that interest me...Those factors that contribute the most to your pleasure and satisfaction with your own audio grid...


By the way it is because I read forums like Audiogon for the last 7 years that I learned what to do for myself to gain this always relative and minimal but important "musicality" personal experience; I learn to ponder the decisive factors I must focus on and work with to gain this experience of satisfaction with music reproduction I name "musicality", and not only what piece of gear is more useful to buy...I want to learn from you... 
Interesting remark Mental, thanks... And Thanks Fsonicsmith for your  points about "musicality", there is truth to ponder...
I think that no musical hall or concert hall sound the same, and no individual room either; and the performance is linked to the location of the interpreters and the location of the listeners, sometimes 2 different locations that the audio grid linked together... Not only there is engineering factors in the experience of listening music, architecture of the concert hall in the lived experience, audio engineering also, audio electronics in delayed experience, there is also the individuality of the hearing body of each of us with our own past experience... The experience of "musicality" is linked to all that I think...But one thing is fundamental, each of us, creator of music or listeners, we all crave for "musicality" in the concert hall or in our audio room...I want to know the factors that contribute to this experience in our audio experiments in our own room... That reduce the experience to the audio side of the story and the personal factors in our own history with the experience of the reproduction of music... I will leave the creative side of the story to philosophy of music and of musical performance... I want to read each of us about his personal experience with his audio system in his room..... 

What are the most  important factors, or perhaps the single more important one, that contribute to your own experience of "musicality" ?I will learn something...
I don’t think musicality has much to do with audiophile terms, like transparency, and such. I’ve heard musicality on the car radio, even to such a degree that I’ve stopped the car, written down the name of the artist, then driven over to the nearest record store to buy the music.

Conversely, I’ve heard super transparent systems before that are amazing in that one regard. But, after 20 minutes of listening, one is left wondering ... where is the musical involvement? Where is the musical emotion? Why am I bored listening to this system? Where’s the exit?
Oregonpapa,thanks for your point, very interesting for me, because this experience of yours we have lived that also most of us and it is some food for thinking...

Thanks to the others also, interesting beginnings for tought...
I think that many descriptors of sound are difficult to explain, but one that is very difficult to explain is "musicality" but when we experience it, relatively for sure, not in an absolute sense, it is like we are less conscious of the sound first and more conscious of the flowing experience of the music we listen to in the now ...Sometimes miraculously, all is right in the audio system, and we swim with the music...No subconscious insatisfaction grab us back...


For each of us if we think about the many different factors that make this experience possible, we, each of us had our opinions,our experiments, our discoveries: cables, particular piece of gear, tweaks, etc... I am very curious about how each of us gain his access to this "musicality" experience... The fact is there is a progression, but one day, suddenly the miracle is somehow there :"musicality"... Why? How? I think that for each of us this experience of wonder is different... I am curious to read the reflexions of others about that...


I am interested to read about "wonders"  in experiencing "musicality" by each of us, it is a long road to experience that, this is not a problem that has only a simple one miraculous solution, it is a long way for most of us...I am interested by  your particular history about that experience...